Classics: 4 Personal Brand Truths Every Leader Should Know: Show Notes & Transcript

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

In this Classics episode, we outline the 4 Personal Brand Truths Every Leader Should Know. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review.

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Strategic Counsel: Classics: 4 Personal Brand Truths Every Leader Should Know

Our book on personal branding is launching in early 2026! Stay updated on the launch at ForthRight-Business.com & ForthRight-People.com

Most successes and failures in business can be tied back to a leader’s ability to be aware of and manage their personal brand. Characteristics like empathy, ingenuity, and thoughtfulness are critical to bond people. If you have these as a leader, you are probably doing better than most. Now more than ever, it is critical to be more intentional in your pursuits, which means inherently recognizing who you are at your core and understanding how this will impact your behaviors and actions, which will ultimately define your business. In this episode, we outline the 4 Personal Brand Truths Every Leader Should Know. We highlight a founder we appreciate for embodying these truths, Kevin Systrom of Instagram. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

• Decide which aspects of your brand influence your business
• Create a brand identity that ties to your personal brand
• Maintaining employees at an agency
• Institutionalize the parts of your brand that you want as your legacy
• Be clear and committed to your personal brand

And as always, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at: ForthRight-People.com.

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:

Show Notes

• Classics: 4 Personal Brand Truths Every Leader Should Know
  • [0:00] Welcome to Strategic Counsel
  • [1:01] The Power of Your Personal Brand book announcement
  • [1:26] Why personal brand matters for leaders
  • [3:25] Adjusting leadership behaviors in difficult times
  • [5:17] Be clear and committed to your personal brand
  • [8:32] Decide which aspects of your brand influence your business
  • [10:49] Create a brand identity that ties to your personal brand
  • [15:03] Institutionalize the parts of your brand that you want as your legacy
  • In The Trenches
  • [30:03] Maintaining employees at an agency
  • [35:06] Making a name for yourself in law practice
  • [39:08] Competing with a new restaurant
  • [44:30] Company acquisitions and culture changes
  • [50:30] Real World Example: Kevin Systrom of Instagram
  • Make sure to follow Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast spot and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts
  • Learn more at ForthRight-People.com and connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn

What is Strategic Counsel?

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

Thanks for listening Strategic Counsel. Get in touch here to become more strategic.

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:01

Welcome to the Strategic Counsel by Forthright Business podcast.  If you’re looking for honest, direct and unconventional conversations on how to successfully lead  and operate in business,  you are in the right place.  In our discussions, we push on the status quo and traditional modes of thinking  to reveal a fresh perspective.  This unlocks opportunity for you, your team  and your business. Now let’s get to it.  Welcome to the Strategic Council podcast.

 

00:31

I am Anne Candido. And I am April Martini.  And today we’re back with another previously recorded classics episode around the topic of personal brand. This time we tackle the topic of leaders and how important it is to live your personal brand authentically in order to lead effectively with intention.  Characteristics like empathy, ingenuity, and thoughtfulness are critical to bond people. At the time of this original recording, we were living through the pandemic, but the discussion is evergreen and lives long beyond that point in our lives.

 

01:01

As many of you may or may not have heard, we’re launching a book at the beginning of 2026, all about this topic entitled, The Power of Your Personal Brand,  a playbook for struggling middle managers who want to do big things, which we are so excited to introduce to all of you. But while you wait for that to come out, enjoy this episode for the first time or as a reminder of why personal brand is so effective in being an impactful leader. And with that, let’s get to it.

 

01:26

In fact, most successes and failures in business can be tied back to a leader’s ability to be aware of and manage their personal brand. So for example, building and maintaining culture is a big one right now, especially given the fact that we’re in the midst of a pandemic where we can’t physically be together. So  characteristics like empathy and ingenuity and thoughtfulness are completely critical to bond people  given the circumstances we’re in right now. Those of you that are a leader and you have these characteristics, you’re probably doing a better job than most.

 

01:56

And if you don’t, honestly, you’re probably struggling, which means you’re going to have to work harder and be more intentional about what you’re doing than someone who just inherently has those traits and the ability to bring them forward as a leader in their organization. And this applies when you’re addressing employee hiring and retention, raising money, operations, selling. It’s not just about managing people on the team. It’s about managing all the relationships throughout the organization  and all the people you come into contact with. And really.

 

02:26

who you are at your core and knowing that will  help you be able to channel  your behaviors and actions in a way that will help boost this or adjust the impact you can have  on the organization. And we just want to be totally clear again, this isn’t necessarily just for leaders who are entrepreneurs and starting their own thing.  It’s not just the CEO of a company.  It’s not just for owners. It’s for anyone that has any type of leadership role.

 

02:56

in any organization,  because if you’re taking responsibility and ownership for pieces of the business, you’re acting like a leader and therefore this speaks to you. Yeah, and we get these questions a lot because in the struggle that is a pandemic,  a lot of people have had to  switch and really accommodate  their  organization in a way that’s  really uncomfortable for them. It’s just not the traditional way of being able to do it.

 

03:25

And they’re finding that some of the basic behaviors and actions that were suiting them in the past  that was helping to facilitate  connections. So for example, just having like team outings, like lunches and stuff are just not working anymore.  And that really means that you have to go back into your own personal brand as a leader and really understand what characteristics need to be thought through in  what your awareness around those characteristics are. Because remember, as we say, your characteristics are

 

03:54

good or bad, but  how they present themselves in certain situations can be good or bad. And that’s why you look at the behaviors and actions and see if those behaviors and actions are suiting what you’re trying to accomplish at the time.  it might seem a little bit like a confusing conversation when you think about  brand truths  and personal brand truths as a leader, but really  people who are very much innately understanding that, aware of that, continue to adjust that.

 

04:23

are really faring better in this time and able to help their organization really  continue to thrive despite that.  all this conversation on personal brand is still kind of confusing to you. We do have a  really in-depth episode. And actually, I just looked and it’s our most popular episode now. I saw that today. So it’s episode three. So please go back and listen to that. We go through all the specific.

 

04:49

Steps of defining your personal brand and then how to really cultivate that so that will really help you have a good basis  so that this Conversation that we’re about to have with you guys makes a lot more sense Exactly, but for those of you that already listened to that one and you’ve  done all the work and you feel like you have a really well-defined personal brand that you’re regularly working on with intention  We can jump into today’s topic, which is for personal brand truths that every leader should know Let’s jump in

 

05:17

Okay, the first one is be clear and committed to your personal brand. So remember our comment just a few minutes ago about that previous podcast. If you have not done the exercise to proactively and deliberately identify your characteristics, your appearance, your behaviors and actions that make up your personal brand,  and you haven’t put them into practice and you haven’t been working on it for a while, you are not ready to project this brand onto the business. In fact,

 

05:44

I would go as far to say that you could potentially do more harm than good because if you don’t know who you are at your core, how in the world are you going to expect anyone else to? The culture of any organization starts with a leader. It’s the heartbeat. It’s important to every single aspect, what you sell, what you provide, the services you put out there, who you serve, all of those types of things. So seriously, you haven’t done the work?

 

06:09

Go back and do it, otherwise you’re not ready to influence the organization in any significant way today. And I would just say um this was a big one for me when I decided to set out on my own. Having been a part of agencies for so many years,  I always kind of had to balance my personal brand with the brand of the organizations. And  I think I always was striving to find the best fit for me at the point in time where I was within my personal brand journey.

 

06:37

But even as good a fit as something can be,  it’s still not truly reflective of you if it’s not yours.  And so therefore, when I made the move to go on my own, which we’ve talked about that in previous episodes too on entrepreneurship, it was really important for me to think through what was it about me that I felt compelled me forward really at the foundation to go and create my own thing. And what that started as was  just my true passion.

 

07:06

for directness and the ability to do far better work  with respectful conversations and just  really hitting on the head what we were trying to achieve  that then would allow clients to get things for more value, less money, less time. And we could really get down to brass tacks and focus on the work versus all the politics that come out when you’re within these organizations and you have  a lot of players. And like I said, if you’re not the owner, you have to then

 

07:36

do  what is reflective of that brand at the end of the day in spite of what your personal brand is. Yeah,  and you have to really figure out what your role is within that broader context, too.  And that’s where we see a lot of the conflict happening as well.  And we’ve gotten a lot of questions on that. And I think we’re actually going to discuss a little bit more later.  But it’s about,  has my personal brand then reflect within the broader context of the company? But then how do

 

08:04

what elements of my personal brand am I going to call upon in order to lead my team?  And there’s gonna be ones that are gonna work well and there’s gonna be ones that aren’t gonna work well and being fully aware of how those are going to  manifest themselves in the style of team that you want to have and what is going to be the impact that you wanna drive, all of those  being very, very important. So, Abro, I mean, can you like, to kind of really hit this one home, can you?

 

08:32

kind of  share with everybody like  one personal brand characteristic.  You kind of said this, like just crystal clear, like what is one personal brand characteristic that was like fundamental in your success? And then what was  one that was like, okay, I got to really manage this wine? Yeah, absolutely. So I mentioned direct  and that is just a fundamental characteristic of mine.

 

08:54

Again, to Anne’s point, one that I’d  have to manage for good and sometimes for bad. know, being too direct with the wrong audience can have a negative impact.  So that’s a characteristic that I feel like I’ve learned over the years to  really use to my advantage  and  learn the ways in which to put that to work for me within my business.  I would say on the other side, one of my characteristics that I probably don’t intentionally

 

09:23

bring to the table when I’m  in business necessarily is competitiveness. I have a very competitive streak within me.  For any of you that know my family, we all have a very competitive streak within us. We’ve  raced each other in marathons and such. I mean, there’s a lot of it there. I’d like to say that it’s always good natured. That’s not always the case. So that’s one of the ones. if April loses. Yeah, only if I lose.  But I would say that that is one that

 

09:52

I think early on in my career drove me, you know, I wanted to be the best, I wanted to do the best, I wanted to stand out. But I think once I embraced the idea of teams and the fact that unfortunately in the agency world there is a lot of that I behavior, I want to be the most creative, I want to be the visionary, I’m the biggest personality, all those types of things, that didn’t work to my advantage. And so while that’s inherently very much a part of who I am, and I would say that it does fuel me to always be better, I make a

 

10:19

very conscious choice not to put that at the forefront when I’m in business situations. right, and number two, which I’m going to pass on to Ann, decide which aspects of your personal brand will influence your business. And I think you gave me a really nice segue into this one. You’re welcome. I didn’t set that up or anything. I’m just going put a couple of fine points on this, and I’ll give another example of one of our recent clients here, because I think you set it up really nicely in that

 

10:49

there’s going to be parts of your personal brand that you want to reflect in your business and there’s going to be parts that you don’t. And that is totally fine.  It doesn’t mean you’re not being authentic. It doesn’t mean that you’re not running the business the way you want to run it. It’s because you have to be very intentional on what’s going to create the right business for you.  And what do you want your brand  in order to represent outwardly to your desired customer base? Because it’s not always  who we are inside as people.

 

11:18

aren’t always the way that we want to reflect our brand in certain situations. for example, we were just recently working with a client, you and I went back and forth on this one, where we said, you you said that she’s like a naturally kind of spunky person. And you were kind of like, you were doing, you’re managing this one. So I was kind of looking at it from afar and I looked at it, was like, hmm, well her brand doesn’t necessarily represent spunk. And that’s totally fine.

 

11:43

But as we were kind of deciding what her tone of voice should be, it’s like, well, do we pull back a little bit on this spunk if her brand needs to represent a different kind of tone or a different kind of context? Because in this case, it was all about transformation and trust in some of these really, really important  aspects of her brand. And so the spunky nature could work if she was going to lean really far into it. But if she wasn’t going to, then it was going to  feel a little  off if somebody walked in and the brand

 

12:12

all the brand equity was like in one way and  feeling like one way, but all of a sudden you have this like really kind of like spunky personality that was facing the business. it  could seem a little bit incongruous and then with that, it kind of feels a little, the experience feels a little off.  So we had like a really long conversation about, how much of this comes forth and how much of it,  and obviously, you wanna feel like you in your business, but you.

 

12:42

You don’t also want to  overly indulge your own pursuits in your business as well, because that also could be a conflict in what you’re trying to achieve. you  kind of have to keep them a little bit separate, but you also have to be  totally aware of where your personal brand characteristics were going to  manifest themselves and behaviors and actions that are going to be conducive and not.

 

13:08

Yeah, and I think what you heard right there is really an insight into the way that Anne and I work together, um which I just want to point out that this is a place where you can talk to other people about the aspects of your personal brand or that of clients that you’re working with. I think one of the things that we do well is, you know, I had identified personally with this client, just personality wise, we jived really well in addition to working on her brand. And I think  because of that,

 

13:37

I was a little bit blind, I had a little bit of a blind spot, I guess,  on what should come forward and what should not. And while that could have been a huge area of differentiation for her, when I heard Anne’s feedback, I really kind of went back and I thought, it’s not necessarily spunk. And I just talked about directness, but  it really is like, that is what she has. And so she wants to work with clients who are going to take her feedback for the professional that she is.

 

14:06

and lean into that and allow her to manage from that point of view.  So it’s more professional than spunk. It’s like a direct professionalism. And so when we pulled back to that,  it was really the fine point that I think pulled all of the tone of voice together and then let her be off on her way to bringing that to life.  she just implemented it, but the changes I’ve seen so far have been exponentially better than what we had before.  Yeah, and think that’s the same if you’re a leader.

 

14:34

not just  in a business context, not necessarily being a leader in an entrepreneurial context,  is again, you need to define what aspects of that are gonna be part of your little entrepreneurial world, whether it’s your team or your organization,  so that you can be very clear about how your tone and how all your brand  attributes are going to come alive within the context of your team and what your team is gonna deliver. Exactly. Yeah.

 

15:03

So that brings us to our next one, which this is number three. Create a brand identity that consistently ties back to your personal brand for business. So that example we were just talking about, that’s tone of voice. That’s part of that personal brand, the verbal side of it. So  once you’ve put your stake in the ground, you’ve really identified your personal brand, you’ve been very choiceful to the conversation we just had about which aspects are coming forward.  Now it’s time to create

 

15:31

the assets that will bring that to life because you’re only one person, right? So all the tools at your disposal  must work really hard  to get you to that place where a consistent experience embraces whoever you’re coming into contact with without you having to be the person there. So  here we’re talking about logos, color palette, photography, all the things you guys hear me talk about all the time, tone of voice, those brand personality characteristics coming forward, all wrapped up into a really nice toolkit.

 

16:01

that you can then share, whether it’s like, we’re building this new company brand, or I’m building this team within, or we’re building a brand for a client, whatever it might be, you’ve got to be really intentional, very pragmatic, and really decisive about those tools, because they are going to set the tone. mean, to the conversation we just had about that tweak to that one tone of voice principle, that was one of four that lived under a brand personality for her.

 

16:29

that once we got it right, we knew we got it right. If we hadn’t, things would have probably always felt a little bit off. ah One of the examples that I always love here is Phil Knight. um I think I’ve mentioned I’m a runner, so of course there’s a connection there with him. But  I think the thing about him  is  he was a runner as well. He was very passionate about the sport. He was disenchanted with the shoes to the point where…

 

16:54

he actually set out to find slash help engineer the perfect shoe for running.  Fast forward all these years later and the Nike brand has really embodied athleticism at its very core, no matter what type of athlete you are, from professional all the way down to just an amateur, that when you put that stuff on, you can really feel the energy of the brand and that initial inspiration he had.

 

17:19

to bring something to the masses that was better than what he himself experienced as a runner.  And everything from that swoosh to the just do it.  I mean, when you see their campaigns, you can’t help but be energized. And that’s because  he brought his personal brand and his personal passion and who he was as a runner to build that brand in order to bring literally the best products and brand out there to people in the masses. Yeah. And another one  I referred to on this one, and this one’s a

 

17:48

personal passion of my daughters is Chick-fil-A.  Everybody knows that Chick-fil-A is not open Sundays.  mean,  nowhere is it open Sundays, not even at  the amusement park that’s in our backyard.  There’s a Chick-fil-A there, it is not open Sundays. And that goes back to their personal brand of the owner and the founder of, that’s a day for family.  And you can only imagine how much revenue they’re losing on a Sunday. uh

 

18:17

I’ve even had, and so my daughter Corinne has asked us, can we change our travel plans, mom, so we can leave on Saturday and come back on Saturday so that she doesn’t miss out on the travel day, which is usually Sunday, and she can stop at Chick-fil-A when we’re traveling. So I mean, it’s definitely something that people recognize. It’s definitely something people respect. And it’s a foundation of who that brand is at the core.

 

18:42

because the founder chose that that was gonna be something that’s gonna be fundamental to the brand that he was actually going to bring forth. Now, is it a very good chicken sandwich? Yeah, so I’m told I’m gluten free, I can’t eat the chicken sandwich, but I can eat the grilled chicken. I mean, but at the end of the day, it’s a chicken sandwich, but like the equity that they built as a result of the personal brand that he’s bringing forward is making that brand more than just a chicken sandwich.

 

19:09

Yes,  exactly. And I would say, you know, to bring it back very personally to Anne and me,  I mean, we align fundamentally  on certain characteristics that have led our values  and that then  brought us together at a much deeper level, which is the connection you feel with these brands is when you  have something more meaningful than to the point of just a chicken sandwich, right, or a pair of running shoes or a jacket or whatever. uh

 

19:37

You feel that passion and energy that comes forth from a leader, a founder, whoever really  had that idea and then went forward with the business the similar way that we have done.  And we talk all the time about speaking directly but respectfully to clients and not wasting anybody’s time and making sure that we’re just at the end of the day  doing good work with people that we like.  That’s really the essence of our entire company, our entire initiative. um

 

20:06

told the story of how we got together in a previous episode, so I won’t belabor that point for those of you that have already listened to it, but just the point that, you know, as founders and leaders ourselves, we have really lived this and breathed this and it’s what’s led to our success. And I think it’s also some of the elements of what we’ve learned in our previous life. It’s kind of like when you learn what not to do to some extent. Well, and all my, you we can all say we’ve had some good and bad.

 

20:35

bosses and leaders in our  history, but as much as you can respect the way that some people have done and  led and done work, you can also look back and say, I am not gonna do it like that. Which I think was one of the reasons we got to some of the directness and why that was so critical and important, because it was something that we were dramatically missing  in our own respective corporate environments. But it’s something that we really appreciated from a leader.

 

21:00

Yes. And so  you have to remember too that as a leader, you can’t always indulge in what you want it to be. You have to really be cognizant of what your team is going to respond to.  if you happen to be, and we’re going to talk about this in a future episode, but if you happen to be kind of conflict adverse, for example, but your team is a very dynamic, very emotionally driven team, that’s going to be a problem.

 

21:28

Like, you so you have to really recognize that some of those personal brand attributes, if you’re conflict adverse and your team really responds to conflict, then  in productive conflict, not like mean, torturous conflict, you’re gonna have to really  figure out how you’re going to address that and what behaviors and actions you’re gonna put in place in order to foster that, not squash it.  So I think that’s really, really  important is that you’ll learn as much about, you know, from people about  how you wanna be

 

21:58

as much as you’re gonna learn from people  how you’re not going to be, how you’re not gonna lead. Yeah, which I think is actually a nice segue to the next one, which you’re gonna also take.  Number four is institutionalize the parts of your brand that you want to be your legacy. So here we’re talking more of the long-term vision of those assets that you’re bringing forward. Yeah, and I think this is really, really important because this is what solidifies it and makes it  real.

 

22:21

Right? Because you could talk about it all you want, but when you solidify it and you make it real, you put it down on paper, you start intertwining it in your about us page. You start intertwining it into purpose, mission, value statements. You start intertwining it into mantras that you um you represent and that you’re continuing reinforcing to your team. This becomes  real. And this is what is actually taken and becomes your legacy as you move down the road.

 

22:51

And nobody’s gonna know it unless you actually institutionalize it. And that’s super important because there’s gonna be pieces that  you’re gonna  leave to be flexible, but there are gonna be pieces like we talked about, the passion  for sport that  Phil Knight had that became the essence of Nike,  the principle of uh Christian values of no working on Sundays that became a value for Chick-fil-A that

 

23:19

still is like very much intact. Those are ones that you’re going to have to set up and establish in order to be able to leave that legacy. Because then when that is down there, that becomes the thing that gets passed down. Right. And so you really need to have that and you really need to make sure that that is very clear. So initially, you know, this is going to what’s going to represent you, because especially if you’re an entrepreneur or, you know, your leader, you are

 

23:46

kind of the manifestation of whatever that is at that time. But as people come in and  it evolves and it gets more personality and it kind of breathes,  there’s gonna be other nuances that are going to give it color. So you wanna make sure that the parts that are really, really important  maintain their integrity and then the other parts are free to kind of move.  It’s also gonna help you as a leader.

 

24:11

to understand that so that you’re not having that knee-jerk reaction every time somebody does something. It’s like, is that against what I want or what I not want? You’re going to be very clear in your head that, oh, yes, I have space for that kind of a nuance as long as it’s not violating this key principle. And it allows you not to be as paranoid and  worry about  all the different kind of uh

 

24:35

stimulus that’s coming at your way and you can like be a little bit more accommodating to other people.  And it just creates a little bit more of a vibrant team,  whether you’re an entrepreneur or a leader  of a team. So I think that’s really, really fundamentally important that you really establish and clearly identify what are the key points  of your personal brand that are going to be your legacy and then let everything else kind of breathe. And you might.

 

25:04

massage that as you go.  So it’s not like something you have to write in stone and then, hey, I’m done with it.  But you have to start somewhere so that people are very clear what’s expected of them.  And then  you can have the conversations in a very open way, and you can continue  to let everything kind of develop in a more organic way.

 

25:25

Yeah, and I would say the other part about that is it lets you keep your eye on the bigger picture. So to Anne’s point, you’re not micromanaging every situation that happens  because you’ve built in that flexibility. ah One of the unfortunate examples that I think sheds light on the what not to do is, know, agencies are our agencies and they as such have a lot of um changes, different cultures over time, people coming in and out all the time.

 

25:53

And I think that that can be a huge challenge for someone leading.  And I’ve worked at too many of them  to see moments where you can kind of see  the train wreck coming, so to speak, right? But  somebody wakes up one day and is like, wait a minute, who are we?  Why are we here?  What have we been doing? Why are we doing it again? And really that comes from leadership, right? It’s not the role and responsibility of the people doing the day-to-day work with their heads down, making sure stuff gets done for clients. m

 

26:22

you know, the head CEO all the way down to every leader of the organization. And unfortunately, there’s just been too many situations where fill in the blank,  you grew too fast, you took on clients that you really shouldn’t have for reasons that didn’t align with your values. um You  chased after something that was a dream that really wasn’t aligned with the business strategy and the model you were trying to build. mean, all these situations can happen. A merger and acquisition went bad, whatever the case might be.  And

 

26:51

nothing causes an organization to crumble faster  than when that brand represents nothing or something very muddy  and then no longer speaks to the broader organization and all the subsequent people that it touches outside of the organization  in a way that’s truly meaningful. And I think that’s a really good point.  And I’m acquitted to something that, you know, hits  really home for me and hopefully kind of provides an analogy that people can understand.

 

27:18

Because I think what you said is so fundamentally important  in the context of  what you build around too. So for example, let’s take like, you know, a rock band, right? So  Bon Jovi, one of my favorite rock bands. I’m a big hair 80s fan, love big hair 80s, okay? The band is named after him, right? So it’s Bon Jovi. So if John Bon Jovi leaves,  is the band still a band? Does it still have a brand? Like what is the music? Like,  you know, and that’s, you know,

 

27:48

We talked about naming before too and how important like naming is when you’re trying to develop a brand equity around it. So,  know, can Bon Jovi exist without Jon Bon Jovi? I don’t know. But if you look at another brand or another band like  Chicago, for example, Chicago has built their brand around the music. Now they’ve had many different lead singers. They’ve had many different instrumentalists. They’ve come and go. You could say one’s better than the other. I personally like Peter Satara more than all the others.

 

28:17

But  the music can sustain itself. It outlives one single person because the band is based on the type of music it wants to create, not just one person that has defined who the band is. And you know, it’s fine if you want to go in and out and that’s fine, but most people are trying to develop something that’s sustaining. And so you have to really think about…

 

28:39

how that is reflected in what you’re building around or else you do kind of lose your way.  And that becomes a really fundamental way uh that businesses tend to kind of, like you said, wake up one day and they’re like, I don’t even know who we are. And then it all falls apart. Yeah, well, and I think it’s indicative too of that personal brand with the Bon Jovi example.

 

29:06

pushing too much  of that one personality  into the band. And so  that’s that balance that we’re talking about is you have to lead, yes, you have to build it,  you have to make sure you’re very choiceful, but you can go too far  and what you don’t want is your legacy to become just you. And then when you’re gone, it’s gone. It’s gone, right. But that’s it. Yeah, exactly. All right, so for those of you that have been listening and thank you for listening.

 

29:34

um We  do a second kind of set up here of what we call in the trenches. And this segment is where we give real world examples that may be specific to certain industries, but with broad enough application that you can digest and put it into action no matter what kind of business you work with it. So the first one we have here is I own an agency and we are having trouble maintaining employees. So of course, this one’s directed at me. So I will take this one.

 

30:03

ah This has been a big one for me over the years.  Every agency from the very first one where 24 people were laid off the week after I started and that was my first experience ever, um all the way up to being at Curiosity and trying to lead and maintain and pick the right talent. uh I think this gets really, really tricky, right? Because as we’ve been talking about personal brand and the flexibility of the brand you’re building.

 

30:29

This is where it all kind of lives in the nuances. So being really clear on that flexibility is important.  But I would say if you’re having trouble maintaining employees and this is a new problem  or  like it’s happening in droves and people are leaving,  that signals that something has changed within the organization. And we would be willing to bet that it has something to do with a very fundamental brand and culture of the organization.

 

30:55

know, agencies are known for being cool and hip and fun, and therefore  they try to attract young talent and people that have,  you know,  better technological skills, for example, or just totally new thinking and aren’t tainted yet by the business to balance out, you know, those of us that are, more legacy employees.  I think  if you’re having trouble recruiting or keeping any of those types of things, it’s because  there’s not a clear view out there of who you are, why you exist and why people would want to work with you and for you.

 

31:25

um I think it also can signal that the leader of the organization has either  tapped out or become distracted or taken a pet project and kind of lost that vision, whatever that case might be.  And that puts you in a really dangerous place. So  this is where you put the ego aside. You take a big step back. You get your  most trusted advisors together.

 

31:48

This has to be the most important thing you do. Don’t put your head in the sand and say, oh, I’ll figure it out later. It’ll figure itself out. It never works that way. I can tell you from experience.  So really take a moment, pause, take a step back,  and figure it out. I would say a really good example, and I won’t mention the agency by name, but  a friend of mine recently took a new job, and their CEO is new to the helm and actually will just call people off the cuff, any level of employee at any random time.

 

32:18

And I’ve heard it can be pretty disconcerting when it first happens, right?  But once you realize that he’s really just calling to check in, see how you’re doing personally and professionally, keep a pulse on things going on in the organization, let you know that you matter and he cares,  it’s actually a really welcome thing for those people.  And so I would say that’s a really good example, especially for someone that’s newer to that seat, right? To really get in there, show that they’re gonna make things work, show that they care,  and keep that culture moving forward as it should.

 

32:47

And I think  just a note from the  other side of that dime, which is the client side, the transition on an agency side, it can  be extremely detrimental to an overall team dynamic in the quality of the work  and just the timing it takes to  continue to move forward. um know when, especially when key members of the agency would turn over, it felt like we were almost starting over from the beginning.

 

33:14

where you had to retrain that person and the person had to kind of come in and learn all the dynamics and then they had to figure out how they were going to engage. And especially if you don’t have a strong leader who has a very strong personal brand and hasn’t done any of these things that we’ve talked about, about how do you quickly onboard someone  onto  your team,  it becomes a big, huge distraction for everybody. So.

 

33:39

I  know agency jumping is a thing and I’ve seen it happen,  especially over my several decades over at P &G,  but  do your best  to try to minimize the impact and you can do that by doing everything that we’ve been talking about as a leader, by understanding your personal brand, documenting what’s gonna be important for your team, understanding what are your clear points that are gonna be  the key ones and then what are you gonna allow the flex around.

 

34:08

And then making that easier so that you don’t have to belabor the whole transition period. Yeah, I mean, I can say on the agency side, when I got to that leadership position, those were like the most dreaded calls, right? Because no matter how you try to spin it, the client on the other end is like, are you freaking serious? We just lost our team. And sometimes it was again. Again. Or you just invested money in bringing somebody along and then that person’s gone already. And she’s like, oh my goodness gracious. OK. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very frustrating.

 

34:38

Exactly. Okay, so you get the point on that one.  The second one is, recently started my own law practice and I’m not sure how to make a name for myself. Okay, so we talked about getting really clear on your personal brand and this is the reason for doing that because in addition to establishing who you are, you really need to think about what’s unique and ownable so that you can stand out from others that are in your space. And I think

 

35:06

especially in the profession of being a lawyer, there’s some stigmas associated with that profession as kind of a necessary evil. So  not only are you working to develop as a new person coming into the profession,  you’re working against others and some that have been there a really long time, and you’re working against the fact that people just inherently don’t like, don’t trust, fill in the blank, lawyers because of stereotypes, bad experiences, all of those types of things. So what you have to do is

 

35:35

really dig deep on your personal brand. And this is not like,  I’m the best workers compensation lawyer that there is, or I’m going to charge the lowest price, or I’m going to charge the highest price.  All of those types of decisions are very surface level.  We’re talking about really doing your homework on your personal brand.  And what that will ultimately lead you to is that thing that will help you stand out from the pack. And in some cases, it may have very little to

 

36:01

do with the actual work you are doing, which is the point of this in the trenches segment, right?  So I will use a very near and dear example. My dad has been a workers’ comp lawyer, so there’s that reference, for 35 years.  And when he came into the practice, he was a very young lawyer, he had inherited it, things weren’t going exceptionally well.

 

36:23

And he was like, what am I gonna do about this? And so what he did honestly was really start listening to the clients, especially the super disgruntled ones.  And what he learned is that they just didn’t feel heard. They didn’t feel like the lawyer was listening to them. They could never get him on the phone.  They  felt like he was multitasking and doing other things. And so it was a really bad experience overall. And pair that with all of the negative associations with the category in general, right?

 

36:52

That stinks for those people because they’re coming in assuming a bad experience and they’re getting one. So it’s fulfilling that idea in their head.  And so honestly, what my dad started doing was taking all the phone calls, literally. And 35 years later, the feedback that he consistently gets, and now my brother who’s taking over consistently get,  is that they like them and they trust them because they’re willing to get on the phone with them. It was as simple as that.

 

37:18

and that led to success. So that’s the kind of stuff we’re talking about and really being honest about who you are. You my dad fundamentally loves to talk to people. So even though he hasn’t always loved being a lawyer, that part has kept him fueled over the years and excited  and really engaged because that’s part of who he is. That’s one of his characteristics. So there you go. Yeah, and that’s some demonstrating some marketing smarts too, because if you think about how you’re gonna actually market a law firm,

 

37:47

in going back to the same that you originally said is you don’t really need a lawyer until you need a lawyer. Yeah. Right. And so like all the traditional marketing channels that you would traditionally use to advertise in normal business doesn’t make a lot of sense because it’s really in the moment from which you need a lawyer. So a lot of that comes from reputation. A lot of it comes from word of mouth. A lot of it comes from, hey, you know,

 

38:10

I know my friend over here had an issue and so I’m gonna go to what my friend said and you’re gonna go seek that out because of a shared experience. So that is so fundamental to being able to market your law firm and there’s other industries that are like this as well because it’s also situational. It’s also contextually situational. So  it’s definitely  smart because  they are differentiating.

 

38:39

when we were doing the presentation for um LMA, I think I Googled and there’s like 250  small business lawyers just listed in Cincinnati.  know, and so  who’s going to go through all those? Yeah.  Exactly. All right. Number three, in the trenches.  I own a restaurant and another steakhouse is opening down the street, which has us a bit on edge. What do you suggest? um I’ll take that. I like steak.

 

39:08

I  think this is a really  interesting one because this is usually when  people freak out, it’s usually because they haven’t done the work to really identify their brand.  And you’re get freaked out anyway, but it depends on whether or it’s a big colossal freak out or like, oh, there’s a mouse that’s in my kitchen literally, figure it out, and I need to kind of figure out how to get the mouse out. So I  used to use that analogy all the time when I was at P &G, so sorry, guys, if that doesn’t ring true to you. m

 

39:37

I think this is really like an element of really going back into  understanding what your story is. And we talked about this, about what is it about your personal brand  that is now being reflected within your business that makes a point of difference, that is going to allow you  to  continue to give that experience to your customers that nobody else can match. And really it’s  beyond the food. It’s beyond just, you know, being a  good restaurant.

 

40:07

We’ve talked about this before, like that’s literally and figuratively table stakes. That’s what people come in for. They come in for the food.  So, you you have to develop and give them something that’s good. They’re going to remember you by that. They’re going to want to talk to you,  talk to others about you and give them like that fodder for that, that content. So you really need to take a step back, take a look at what that restaurant is going to be. You know, so really like assess your competition.

 

40:34

Think about what your differentiating factors are as a brand. Think about what you as the owner, as the leader,  the manager are going to instill and you’re going to  bring back up and you’re going to refresh and then rally everybody behind that. Make sure everybody’s on the same page by what you stand for, what kind of experience you’re gonna create and make sure that that is very, very solid. And that’s gonna reflect.

 

40:59

back to your clientele.  It could also be a  foundational part of maybe a promotion that you do.  It could be a uh new uh menu items that you  create. It can inspire a lot of different ways  of just refreshing your restaurant and bringing people to you,  especially when there’s a new and this new thing out here sitting there and it’s all nice and glittery  and  maybe you’ve been around for a little bit too.

 

41:28

So think about how you might  be able to refresh yourself  on this.  I  wonder,  April wrote a really, really fantastic blog on this  several months ago. So I really highly suggest you guys go back and  look at the blog too.  It is restaurant focused, but you’ll take away so many other nuances about business in general  based on how  certain restaurants in Cincinnati have really.

 

41:54

adapted to the COVID environment and being able to really sustain an equity and even kind of reimagine their equity. But one quote specifically that I thought was  pretty poignant that I wanted to make sure to call out is one from Jeff Ruby, who has several restaurants here in Cincinnati, and particularly probably the best steak I’ve ever had anywhere.  But he says, people don’t come to a Jeff Ruby restaurant because they are hungry. They can go to the refrigerator if they’re hungry. They come to our restaurants to celebrate life.

 

42:23

And that’s really like the fundamental essence of what he is trying to evoke through the experience with his restaurant. And he does it very well. Yeah. And I would say to build on that point, no matter how strong you think your brand is, do not rest on your laurels. Do not rest on your ego and think that,  we’ll be fine. It doesn’t matter that somebody new is coming in. I mean, using Jeff Ruby as an example, he’s always been very  hungry, pun intended,  about the idea of

 

42:53

expanding, right? And so he very pragmatically built a very strong reputation and following in Cincinnati, then chose the one restaurant, the actual Jeff Ruby restaurant, to expand into other cities  in the Midwest region  that have similar footprints and personalities.

 

43:11

and then train the staff accordingly to provide the same experience regardless of what city you’re in. And so we’ve been, you know, I can speak personally to a lot of the locations in other cities. My husband worked for him for 10 years and actually did some of the training. So it’s very, very disciplined. So I think he’s a good example of always having his eye on the prize, whether there’s new competitors in the space or not. But I think sometimes where restaurants fail is,

 

43:38

They have this inflated opinion of themselves and they think that they’re just gonna be okay and it’s not gonna matter and okay, it’ll be a flash in the pan and maybe we’ll see some traffic going over there. And those are the ones that always get caught off guard when they really shouldn’t have been. And it can be everything from the new restaurant paying more and  stealing their employees, especially if it’s a similar type of restaurant, that’s a really easy thing to do.

 

44:04

um Or, you know, they just continue to do the same old thing and around them all these places are opening. I if you’re not focused  as the owner of that brand, no one else is going to do it for you. And competition or not, you really have to make sure that you are tirelessly working to ensure that you’re top of mind for people in a very competitive space.

 

44:30

All right, fourth and final in the trenches. My company is being acquired and my gut is telling me the culture will change. Another big one from the agency side, folks. I have lived through this many times um and I have seen it work, but more often than not to the point of learning from mistakes, I’ve seen it not work.  And I think what happens here  is people get distracted.

 

44:57

buy the idea of sale or merger or something bigger.  Their eyes go wide with a big payout. Or people that have run the company for a long time are gonna retire and they don’t really have any succession plan, whether it be with family or others  that have worked for them for a long time and they’re ready to be out of it. I there’s lots of situations that come up.  But I think what I’ve seen happen is

 

45:25

everybody gets really excited about the idea and then kind of forgets  the brand and the legacy that has been built to date. I can tell you that when third parties enter, it gets really sticky.  Those are situations where the agendas don’t line up. You might be told something and then you get into a room with everybody and you’re like, wait, you were told this, I was told this, what’s going on?  I just think these types of situations get really emotional, really messy.

 

45:55

And everybody kind of just loses sight of the goal of doing it in the first place. And so I remember being in a room at 23 years old that I probably had no business being in, watching these parties go back and forth of two companies that were being put together by an outside equity fund.  And  how are we going to integrate all the leaders? What were you going to call ourselves?

 

46:19

you know, all of these shiny things, like what’s the new logo gonna be and all of that, when at the very foundation, no one was talking about the different cultures of the organizations and  how were they gonna come together and the fact that we now had, I think, seven offices across the world and  who was gonna be at the helm and then you watch the founders kind of, you know, tiptoeing slash arguing with each other about, you know, who was gonna be in charge and at one point it was like, can we put all five names together and make a new name? I mean, it just got,

 

46:49

totally insanely crazy. But I think the point of this is  if you have taken the time to build a business  and you really want your legacy to move forward, and if you don’t, that’s okay too. If you’re okay, like I’m done, I’m selling it, I built my thing, I’m out, that’s totally cool. But if you really want to leave a legacy that’s more than just the building and then sale of this company.

 

47:14

You’ve got to be the one to ask the harder questions because there aren’t very many of those people in the room in my experience. And once the train gets rolling, it just goes. And then you’re left looking back and thinking, what the heck happened?  That organization that I mentioned when I was a young pup  in rooms that I shouldn’t have been, think that they changed hands  after the merger. think the company lasted two and a half years and then the subsequent four to five, it traded hands many more times and now it’s gone today.

 

47:44

There you go. Yeah.  And from my corporate world,  I got to experience a couple of different  acquisitions, one specifically being the Gillette acquisition.  And what you said about really understanding  the legacy that you want to have and  how that legacy then transcends into a new organization. mean, the case on point right here where we re…

 

48:09

I say we when I speak and figure about PNG at that moment in time, realize that the organizations were so culturally different trying to assimilate them into one either by, and PNG was buying Gillette, it would be at a PNG assimilation, the Jalik culture was just gonna be detrimental. And actually Gillette operates very independently still to this day, still in Boston, considered another headquarters.

 

48:37

They still have top management that aligns, but  it’s very different culture. And that can work as well, but it’s only because they were so fundamentally clear about what was important about the company. It’s a legacy company. have,  the products are legacy products, but the performance of the products was very much aligned  in those values. Those principles are very much aligned about performance, about uh consumer being uh boss, which A.G. Lafley was famous in saying,

 

49:06

So all those principles aligned, but the cultures were too different to assimilate together and they were maintained. But I remember having to bring and try to convince some of the packaging folks to  come to PNG and I couldn’t convince one. I couldn’t.  I’m, you know, between Boston and Cincinnati, you there’s gonna be a lot of people like, yeah, why would you go to Cincinnati? But like, there was a lot of compelling reasons for people to come to Cincinnati. I think actually the funny that the most compelling one was it stays lighter later.

 

49:35

was like, that was one of my big selling points. It doesn’t get dark as quickly here in Cincinnati and actually kind of got paused. More than anything about houses being cheaper and the old school. Now that was like, no, it’s like, it can stay as light as a, really, really? So, you know, I think that’s just to give some point to what you were saying. And I think it’s really, really important and why it’s so important to make sure you’re very clear on your legacy so that if these  mergers or  the positions to sell your business come along.

 

50:03

you can have some direction of how that is going to  come to fruition and if it’s the right partner to sell to as well. So you talk about that a lot as well. Yeah, exactly. All right. So that closes out our in the trenches section.  And  we always like to end with a real world example. So today we have a personal brand founder. Sometimes we talk super effective, sometimes not so great. oh

 

50:30

Today we have one that we feel like has done a very good job of staying true to his personal brand and also in spite of a category where we’ve seen some bad examples of that. So  the founder of Instagram is Kevin Systrom uh and probably a lot of you don’t know his name. uh I learned about him because this is the kind of stuff that I get geeked down on, right?  But you know, it’s not the same as talking about Zuckerberg and Facebook.

 

50:57

Like you don’t necessarily tie the founder to the brand automatically.  And I think the really interesting thing about Kevin  is he’s in the technological space,  but I would consider him to have a more balanced right brain, left brain situation going on. So  what I mean by that is when you look at him, I mean, he looks like a tech dude, right? But when you really dig into him, so…

 

51:22

He has and has always had a love of photography, so much so that he went to Florence to study it.  And I’m going to totally butcher the name of this camera,  it’s Hoga, I guess, is the camera. And it  made square photos. So you can kind of see where I’m going with the founding of Instagram here, right? So  he loves photography. He’s looking to build a business. Again, he’s in the tech space.

 

51:50

partners with Mike Krieger, they kind of are deciding what to do. And at that time, cameras on phones were getting better, but there was no real standard technique anywhere in social. So the pictures that were showing up were either real bad because the cameras on phones were real bad, or they were just like not really adhering to any sort of branded style. So Kevin took that passion.

 

52:18

of photography and that idea of that square  camera or picture  and started building  Instagram. he took input, and this is the  great example of ideas coming from anywhere, literally.  He didn’t move too fast. He thought about what he wanted it to be, but he also took input from anywhere. And so  he started playing around with filters.  And that was kind of like the first manifestation of it actually going public.

 

52:47

And his wife just refused to use the platform at all. And he’s like, why won’t you use the platform? And she’s like,  because I can’t take pictures like you can. They look horrible. I don’t want any part of that. And I’m just going to feel like a failure.  And so that was the manifestation of this technology that they had of what to do with that filtering technique. Then it started to be built into the platform. And so.

 

53:11

You know, they just really had fun with it, tested and learned. Obviously, it turned into a huge business that was eventually sold to Facebook. ah But to the point of then also being careful about missteps, the first name  that they actually picked was bourbon, spelled B-U-R-B-N, because that’s Kevin’s favorite drink. That’s the only reason.  And good thing they took a step back there and decided,  no, that doesn’t give any explanation to what this is.

 

53:40

things like Facebook already existed, right? So what was a more intuitive  name? And eventually they got to Instagram, right? Instant photo, know, it’s  one little photo, that square, you know, little piece in time.  And I think in a space,  especially a technology space, where we have all these big brands, personalities, you know, people that you identify, he’s kind of lived under the radar. And when Instagram was purchased by Facebook,

 

54:08

and it started to feel like the culture and the intent and the things were starting to change,  he exited the organization. And now when people ask him, okay, what’s your next thing? And people are trying to recruit him. He’s like, you know what? I’m gonna go be a dad for a while. I’m gonna chill out. I’m gonna figure out what my next move is. And so  I just think he’s an inspiration, first of all, especially in the space, but also someone who just has really stayed true to who he was in all instances versus riding the wave of

 

54:36

technology or competitiveness or trying to be like everybody else. He really created something from a passion, from part of who he is that was revolutionary for social media. And I think it’s interesting because I love what you say about the right brain and the left brain thing because what I  know about him and what you’ve  just articulated is he’s so specific about the craft. Yes. And that’s what’s made it  what it is. If it was just like, mean, anybody could take photos. It’s not a big deal. I’m just putting

 

55:03

photos to my copy. Absolutely. You were doing that on Facebook anyway. So what made Instagram so much different than Facebook was the quality and the thoughtfulness behind the imagery, which is what he bore. Like that’s what was born out of Instagram, right? And like even what his website, I can’t take pictures like that. So he made that available to the masses even like now anybody could take a good picture.  And that’s

 

55:29

fundamentally what was so inherently important about his personal brand and his love for photography and his appreciation for craft, which I would imagine would be another one of his  strong personal brand characters is his appreciation for craft, and manifesting that into…

 

55:43

a brand and in a business that actually has spawned so many other businesses now, you have the Instagram influencers. ah Now you have the quality of your photograph is defined by is it Instagram worthy?  I mean, is it grabable? I mean, like that, I mean, you have your own jargon related to how the quality of the photography is good enough in order actually to  be on social. And actually a whole lot of the conversation  we have to our clients about their Instagram is like the quality photography is just not good enough.

 

56:13

And that doesn’t mean you have to be like a professional photographer, but there are certain  tips, techniques, and tricks and stuff like that that define the craft that make something good here. And it’s an enduring platform, right? Given  all the other social media things that come up, it really is a differentiator. To your point about being good enough to be on Instagram, you don’t say that when you’re putting a picture on Facebook. No. Facebook is documenting  your life.

 

56:42

There’s no appreciation, there’s little appreciation for the craft associated with this photography. But Instagram is all about the quilt, you call it,  and  how all those images work together. Coordinate together in order to create the brand and the feel of the brand. And that’s totally unique to that platform. Yes. Interesting. All right, so if you didn’t know Kevin Systrom before today, now you do. Take a look into his story. Super interesting.

 

57:09

Did we spark something with this episode that you want to talk about further?  Reach out to us through our website, ForthRight-People.com.  We can help you customize what you have heard to move your business  and make sure to follow or subscribe to Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast platform!