How to (Re)Build Accountability in the Workplace: Show Notes & Transcript

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

In this episode of Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business, we’re discussing how to rebuild accountability in the workplace. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review!

• Episode Summary & Player
• Show Notes
• Strategic Counsel Summary
• Transcript

How to (Re)Build Accountability in the Workplace

Every time we turn around lately, we’re having discussions about accountability – with our clients, in our coaching sessions, and now on this podcast! A lack of accountability can be one of the biggest downfalls of an organization – it erodes trust and culture, causes even top performers to suffer, and leads to an overall lack of focus and delivery of business goals. In this episode, we’ll reveal how to build (and rebuild) accountability in the workplace, including doing a company-wide reset, detailing the behavior that needs to change, and keeping the focus on why you’re having these discussions. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

• A few indicators that your team has an accountability problem
• When micromanaging might actually be helpful
• How to set your rules of engagement
• Why there has to be consequences
• Understand what motivates each person

And as always, if you need help in building your Strategic Counsel, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at: ForthRight-People.com.

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:

Show Notes

• How to (Re)Build Accountability in the Workplace
  • [0:29] Welcome to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business
  • [1:00] This can be one of the biggest downfalls of organizations
  • [1:33] The starting point is a conversation about the lack of accountability
  • [3:09] How do I know my org has an accountability problem?
  • [6:31] Get to work right away – do a company-wide reset
  • [10:22] It’s important about these changes are that they have to be tangible
  • [15:22] As leaders, you are very clear about what you will and will not tolerate
  • [17:29] Don’t obsess over getting it right the first time and cause inaction
  • [19:02] When micromanaging might actually be helpful
  • [22:07] There have to be consequences
  • [24:42] Identify each person’s currency
  • [27:08] Understand the generational differences of incentivization
  • [32:07] Setting expectations will feel like punishment for some and relief for others
  • [37:47] Reframe the conversation to what is necessary for the business
  • [41:12] Share some of the pain to get people invested in the long-term Why
  • [47:33] Make sure to follow Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast spot and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts
  • [47:45] Learn more at ForthRight-People.com and connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn

What is Strategic Counsel?

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

Thanks for listening Strategic Counsel. Get in touch here to become more strategic. 

Transcript

Please note: This transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:03

Welcome to the Strategic Counsel by Forthright Business Podcast.  If you’re looking for honest, direct and unconventional conversations on how to successfully lead  and operate in business,  you are in the right place.  In our discussions, we push on the status quo and traditional modes of thinking  to reveal a fresh perspective.  This unlocks opportunity for you, your team  and your business. Now let’s get to it.  Welcome to the Strategic Counsel Podcast. I am Anne Candido.

 

00:32

and I am April Martini. And every time we turn around lately, we’re having discussions about accountability with our clients and our coaching sessions and now on this podcast. We did tackle this topic several years back in another episode, but felt the overwhelming urge to come back to it from a different lens as it’s so top of mind and so often discussed. And spoiler alert, the lens around these discussions is about the lack of accountability and what to go and do about it.

 

00:59

Yeah, and we want to start by saying that this can be  one of the biggest downfalls of organization. That’s the lack of accountability because it erodes trust and culture. So it causes even top performers to suffer and leads to an overall lack of focus around in delivery of business goals. Yes, very good point. But all is not lost in this episode, we will get into how to build or rebuild accountability throughout your organization  and then implement it as a consistent ongoing practice.

 

01:29

So with that, let’s get into how to build or rebuild accountability in the workplace. And the first thing we wanna talk about here  is that the starting point for this discussion is a very open and honest conversation about the fact that there isn’t accountability. So I said in the beginning, we were gonna talk about the overall lack  and I can feel all of you tenting up. You’re not alone. This is what happens when we tell people that this is where we have to start from.

 

01:56

And like all tough conversations, there really is no other way but to address it and address it head on, quite frankly, because  what ends up happening is people kind of dance around, they speak to the symptoms, they point to a single person or team.  But really, when accountability has broken down or needs to even be built sometimes for the first time, it’s typically always an organizational wide problem.

 

02:24

So for the context of this episode, we are speaking to accountability at the organizational level and what leaders need to go and do about it.  And that means that the problem is much bigger than one person or one team. And it’s really a complicated ball of wax to undo. And so one of the other things that we see happen here is that people get into, did we get here? And want to kind of start to undo that ball of wax. But the starting point

 

02:52

is around the fact, just start with there is a complete lack of accountability.  And this is something that we need to address across the organization from the top down. And I will get to the points of how to go and do that, but I’m going to let Anne  build from this book. A lot of people will say, well, how do I know I have an accountability problem? No point. A lot of the problems are having we solve with, well, you have a lack of accountability and people are kind of like, oh, so maybe it’d be helpful just to kind of share some of the symptoms of

 

03:22

of when people  may be getting that response from us that you have an accountability problem. That’s usually due to some level of  angst, frustration, annoyance. So you’re already feeling those feelings in your body. Like when you even said, April, like when you said that word accountability, people tense up.  so like it’s a similar feeling when you know there’s an accountability problem and maybe you haven’t like totally like identified it yet, but you’re feeling some sort of tension in your body, in the system, in the team.

 

03:51

And it can be things like people aren’t delivering on time or they’re not delivering according to the expectation of the deliverable or specifically your expectation of the deliverable as a leader.  Or you don’t trust your team in general. Like a lot of times when we start pushing on organizational changes, people will be like, I don’t trust my team to deliver that. That’s when you know you have an accountability problem.  You’re wondering  what people are spending their time on.

 

04:19

seeing them in their seats and they’re not doing the work or again, things are sliding or they’re not responding  or something’s happening and you’re like,  what are they even doing? What are they even up to? How are they even spending their time? You have an accountability problem. People don’t trust you as a leader. If you’re finding that people are not listening to what you say or they’re kind of taking what you say with a grain of salt or they’re not really acknowledging your leadership in general.

 

04:48

you probably have accountability problem  or there’s like attention in the team or you could just sense like something’s off or somebody is like  mad about something or they’re like you said before, like they’re pointing fingers at somebody. There’s probably an accountability problem in there too. So generally if I was going to like put a bow around all of those things, I would say you could generally diagnose accountability problem if you feel like there’s a loss of integrity somewhere in the system. Either there’s a loss of integrity in the performance of the team, your leadership.

 

05:16

the quality of the work, there’s something that is breaking down there that is not being solved for and you can’t figure out why. So I think it’s really good to contextualize all those examples. And those, you guys, are things that we diagnose regularly with our clients. So know that if you’re in there, you’re not alone. And we’re here to help with that.  But also, I think the other important thing is because you’re hearing us.

 

05:42

exemplify that accountability is kind of a nebulous thing and people aren’t sure what to do about it. It’s okay if you’re having those  feelings of angst that Anne and I both mentioned as we’re getting into this episode, but the important thing is that you really commit to digging in  and addressing the problems at

 

06:05

the root cause in order to fix the situations because otherwise that eroded trust that Ann talked about won’t be repaired. And it’s important to get into it in short order, which leads me to the next point here. And so the first thing that we always say, once we get people to maybe perhaps go through a bit of a therapy session about the lack of accountability,  get to the point where they feel like

 

06:31

they can own the fact and sit in that uncomfortability of the fact that they have this problem  is you need to get to work right away. And so the first thing we always recommend is that a company-wide reset or a team-wide reset or an organizational-wide reset, whatever it is for you in the context of this, in the lack of accountability is  you have to address it head on with everyone right away. And it might sound like an,  well, duh,  but.

 

06:59

It really is true because what needs to be said is we’re no longer going to operate the way we used to. And that starts immediately.  And the other side of that being so important is that I said, you know, when people  start having these conversations with us or within their organization about the lack of accountability, people want to really hash out what happened, right? Like what happened before and how did we get here and all those things that I was talking about in the previous point.

 

07:28

There’s not really a lot of worth in that. And that’s why the reset is so important.  It’s kind of one of those situations where you have to start from ground zero. I’m known to say burn it all down to build it back up. I’m not sure that’s always the most positive metaphor for people.  It is a top-down directive. So we have to have buy-in at the highest level for that reset to happen, just as so many of our topics on this podcast do. And then the managers and leaders

 

07:55

below that very top level have to be bought in as well. And they have to be really clear on what this means for them and the people that report to them. Because coming out of this reset, that’s where the first conversations are going to start. That’s gonna be everyone’s biggest question. What does this mean for me? What needs to change in my day to day? What is gonna change for our team day to day?  What are the repercussions? All of those things. And we’ll talk about how to go through and address and diagnose all of these things.

 

08:22

But the immediacy of the change is what really needs to be emphasized because as we all know, it takes a while to shift  behaviors, to build long-term best practices.  This is more of a putting on notice that we’ve identified that there’s an accountability issue  and starting right now, we’re gonna help with the shifting of behaviors, but you have to be ready to change. When we start diagnosing  this challenge a lot of people have, we notice some immediate things that are missing and that’s usually

 

08:52

processes, some sort of standard operating procedures, mission vision values, guidelines for  leadership style, all these things are so important in order to build a highly effective team. They’re generally missing or if they’re there, they’re not being followed. They’re not being brought up to the forefront and being lived day to day. So when April was saying this is an immediate thing, if you’re in the B2C world, we

 

09:19

all  me and April grew up in.  This is like a hard conversion, people. This is not a soft conversion where you’re just kind of like, well, we’re just gonna let the old stuff kind of run itself out and we’ll replace it with the new stuff. Now this has to happen in an immediate format and in a pretty immediate moment in time, but it needs things in order to be able to  make this hard conversion. Like just like you would be like swapping out a new product on the shelf and the new product has like a package and it has.

 

09:46

ingredients and it has a marketing campaign. I mean, you need to have these things attached to it. Now people will say then, well, then I’ll just wait and I’ll develop those things. And then when I develop those things, I’m like, no, you develop these things  basically in a period of like overnight and you switch  and then you  optimize them as you learn and you go on. So don’t let the things be the excuse for not making this an immediate action.  Make it

 

10:15

something that then you put into place and then you work from.  so and some of these things I don’t want to kind of like just down to one point that what’s so important about these things, whether their processes, up procedures, your mission, vision, values, your leadership stuff, whatever those things are, is that they have to be very tangible. Yes. So this is the problem that a lot of people come to us. Well, I have accountability. I told them we’re supposed to have clear communication. Okay.

 

10:43

What does clear communication mean to you? Well, clear communication means that they need to be proactively communicating when then there’s an issue. It means when something is going right, I need to know about that too. It means that I want a response in like, know, 24 hours. like, oh, does your team know that that’s the expectations around clear communication? Well, I don’t know.

 

11:07

And I’m not trying to throw anybody on the bus or make anybody feel, but I’m trying to contextualize some of the conversations we have. If you’re going to put things out there in clear communication, that’s a very important thing to you. You have to tangibly articulate what that means so that people clearly understand it and so that you have something that you can measure against about whether or not you’re having clear communication or not.

 

11:30

Because clear communication means one thing to April, it means one thing to me, it means it’s to be one thing to you, and one thing to your team. Another big one we hear all the time, and I kind of weave that into the clear communication, is responsiveness. I expect my team to respond. OK, what does that mean? Does that mean when you send them an email, you want a response within an hour? You want a response within 24 hours? I mean, what is your expectation? And you can kind of hear the word I keep using, was expectation.

 

11:58

because that’s the counterpoint of accountability. You can’t have accountability if there’s no expectations and they’re not clearly articulated. So what is that? You need to make it very, very clear so your team has that specific criteria by which to actually know, hey, am I being responsive? Am I being a good communicator here? Otherwise, it’s too subjective. And so there’s nothing that you can hold people accountable for if their definition is different than your definition. That’s on you to make sure.

 

12:26

what you are expecting is clearly communicated in a way that they internalize and then they can reciprocate. Yeah, absolutely. I’ve used this example on the show before, but when it became my job to lead the accounts that I was on, build the strategy team and sell it simultaneously, that was three jobs in one and there was no way I was going to be able to do that without empowering my team and also setting the rules of engagement and accountability, right? And Anne, you mentioned responsiveness and

 

12:54

That was a huge part of it and I had to get really tactical with what that looked like, right? So with my team, the rules of engagement were, I’m not gonna be here for you like I used to be, right? Where you could wait outside the conference room and grab me. I’m traveling, trying to sell this thing or building it and locked in a conference room or not even here on site, right? So the things that we set out together is,

 

13:17

Number one, start going to each other to solve problems instead of coming to me. So come to me with a solution or what you recommend doing, you three supervisors together for whatever the challenge is at hand. The other big rule for me was don’t ever let me be surprised. Meaning if a client calls me with a problem before you get to me,  that’s the one place where we’re gonna have a really big issue.  To address those things and mitigate, especially that last one, the things I said were,  if you call me,

 

13:47

Assume it’s an emergency and I will get out of my existing situation as fast as I possibly can, but you’ll be my first call, right? So if that client is calling on the other line, I call them back first. The second was text message. Assume, you know, phone calls an emergency text message. I’m looking at those as soon as I can. I will get right back to you. Email with a flag was when I sit down, when I get home or after Sam goes to bed or whatever, those will be the first emails I read and respond to. And you will have an answer by the time I go to bed.

 

14:17

If you send me just a regular email, know that I will read it by the time I go to bed, I may or may not send a response whether I think it needs one or not. The number of times I actually got a phone call in that period of time was, I don’t know, one or two. And the rest of it really flowed and worked really nicely. And so those two big rules of engagement and my expectations paired with the tactics, which you heard Anne give some of those examples too.

 

14:42

Help people embrace, this is the expectation for accountability, and then here’s how you specifically get to me or deliver me information. And this is the way I want that to go back and forth. So just an example, I think, to contextualize those points. And I think that’s a really good example of what I meant by process, right? Yeah. Because a lot of times we internalize the process within our own head, but we don’t.

 

15:07

actually externally vocalize or document what that process is going to be. Or we say that’s what our expectation is, but we don’t hold ourselves accountable to actually  follow through with what that expectation is. So for example, all the time in my PNG world, we’re like, oh, we’re going to work as a team.  And this would be the leader talking, I want everybody to work together as a team. I’m not going to see any  ideas that the team hasn’t.

 

15:36

been working through or come up together or presenting as a one unified team, right? But then as soon as it became time to share those ideas,  you would have multiple different agencies sharing their own ideas that they did not share or develop or somehow collaborate on as a team. I was on the receiving end of that. Right. Being one of the agencies. And the leader should be like,

 

16:01

Listen, I said, no, I’m not going to hear any ideas unless they collaborate on his team. But instead he would listen to the ideas and then he would respond. And so then the team is like, well, if this person continues to say this stuff, it doesn’t fall through what they’re going to say. Back to my point before, there’s a loss of integrity. Therefore, there’s a loss in trust. And then for the accountability dissolves and disintegrates. So.

 

16:24

I want to just make that point because if April had said, okay, well, you’re supposed to call me if it’s an emergency, but then they call and it’s not an emergency, but then she continues to answer even if it’s not an emergency and she does not give that feedback that that was not an emergency, you can’t get alignment. You can’t get agreement on what the expectation is. And it’s really, really important to make sure people are very clear again about what you’re going to tolerate and what you’re not going to tolerate because you need to have agreement on what those things  are.

 

16:53

in order for those processes, those standard branching procedures, the mission, vision, values, the articulation of whatever  you want to put in place is going to be followed and what your response is going to be if it’s not followed. Yeah. Well, yes, it’s accountability on both sides, right? Is what I’m hearing you say is if, you know, also if I had just  proceeded to take every single phone call,

 

17:18

And like you said, never addressed it and let that be the way people communicate. Then none of those other ways would have been dealt with. And I wouldn’t have succeeded with what my goals were for the team. Right. So exactly. It definitely does flow both ways.  And the other thing that came up is, as we’re chatting here is don’t get super worried that you have to get it exactly right the first time, because part of this, you know, I said it’s building or rebuilding. And so.

 

17:45

Everyone comes with different experiences and  different situations they’ve been in and all of that. The way I was able to get to that so quickly with my team is I had worked with those people for many years at that point in time. And so it was very clear to all of us how our working styles were, what the temperature and culture of the team was. We had our mission, vision, values, all of those types of things. But what I want to say here, and we made this point a little bit earlier is don’t

 

18:13

be paralyzed and then allow that to result in inactivity. Step in and try something and say, this may not work out perfectly in the long run, but where we are right now, this is what we’re going to do. And so therefore now this is what we are holding all of us accountable to for the foreseeable future.  And the beauty of that is that it can be very tactical in nature.  So it’s not like you have to,  you know, solve the strategy of the organization for the next three years right now.

 

18:43

It’s  let’s figure out how we’re working together  and being able to identify that in a line and rally around that as a team, knowing that as we grow, we get better at it. Some of these things may go away, which actually leads me to my next point, which is probably going to sound contrarian to a lot of you that know and work with us, especially the point I want to make is about being specific about what this means for each person and what behavior needs to change. So when we set this up at the beginning, we said,

 

19:13

All right, you identify there’s an issue, you make the proclamation, if you will, that this is gonna change starting right now, and then you need to set these rules of engagement. One of the things that this sometimes requires is a level of micromanagement to all of the reasons that Ann set up and all the symptoms that we talked about in the beginning. And you know Ann and I are not fans of micromanaging. We would tell you to get out of this as fast as you can. But when you’re in these situations where there’s such a breakdown of,

 

19:43

communication and trust and reliability and all of those things, you kind of have to get down really, really into the weeds of what each person is working on. And so one of the exercises that we often recommend right off the bat  is having people send a note at the beginning of the day of what they’re working on and then what they completed throughout that day at the end of the day. And to do that exercise again, not forever and ever,  but the point of it,

 

20:12

is so that there’s visibility to how people are working, what they’re doing, what they’re achieving each day. That helps to solve what Anne was talking about before of like, what are they even doing? I don’t even know what’s going on. But then also  as the leadership or the manager,  you can start to see where there may be inconsistencies with what your expectations were versus what they’re working on. And over time,  it allows you to build an infrastructure where

 

20:40

The deliverables and things get bigger. You don’t necessarily need that level of communication every day permanently,  but it is a moment in time where we feel like  it is granular, but it can really help identify what’s going on, how do we fix it, and how do we start to speak a language that works for every individual on the team.

 

21:03

Sometimes this requires managing up as well. We talk a lot about middle managers, right? If there’s an issue between your boss and you’re sitting in the middle of these teams, sometimes you have to work with that person as well to set these things up. The big caveat we have here  is avoid getting into conversations that go back to behaviors of the past. You know, well, this explanation excuse of this is why I do this this way. No, no, no. This is what are you doing? Tactical list of things.

 

21:32

what got done today, and then we will get into what does it need to look like for the future. Because ultimately, there cannot be any room for interpretation,  no more gray areas, no more, I think I said this, did it actually come out of my mouth? Do we have the rules of engagement here?  This allows for  really a clear picture, as clear as we can get to what work is actually happening. And then my build on that, and then you’re get.

 

21:57

to it more in the next point so I won’t go too far into it is that there has to be consequences. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that is the thing that when  everybody was cringing when you said accountability, everybody is like really cringing now and probably just turned off the podcast episode  when I say consequences. they’re like, I’m going to need something stronger for this part of the conversation.  Maybe we say it’s totally fine to be doing listening to these things over  a glass or two of wine. Yeah.

 

22:24

And I mean, it’s just human nature, guys. I mean, this is the thing is if you are putting out expectations and people don’t meet expectations, there’s got to be consequences when they don’t. Now, there also could be rewards when they do. And there’s incentives for when they do too. But since we’re talking about how to build or rebuild, there has to be consequences. And that can be very, very hard for leaders because it starts to get to that point where like

 

22:49

Oh my God, they’re not gonna like me. Oh, they’re gonna think I’m so mean.  they’re going to say bad things about me. You know, and guys, that all could be true, but at the end of the day, if you’re maintaining integrity  of the team, the work, and your team is producing good work and they’re being recognized as such, that respect they’re gonna have for you is gonna trump anything that they may quote unquote like about you on the other side. And when…

 

23:15

April and I say all the time, it’s more important to be respected than liked. This is a very big example of that. Holding people accountable is not easy. It does not always feel good. Holding yourself accountable isn’t always easy. It doesn’t always feel good.  But it is imperative for a highly functioning team.  And if your team, if you want your team to produce what you need them to produce, the clarity as April said, needs to be there. But also, hey, this is what’s going to happen if it’s not going well. And those could be personal consequences. It could be

 

23:45

broader consequences, right? I mean, at the very core of it is like, this  is what could happen to the business, this is what happened to our reputation, this is  what happened to  us being able to get future budget. mean, so there could be business consequences to it that you definitely want to be able to articulate and we’re gonna get to that in a second. But then there also be personal consequences as well and we’re gonna get to that in a second for sure. So I won’t preempt any more of that.

 

24:12

But I think that’s just, it’s just really important that if you’re, if you’re really  borderline on like, uh, but then, you know, they’re not going to like me, then  you’re probably starting to lean more towards the right side of  being accountable and then realizing you have accountability issue on your team. Yeah. I mean, it is a really good point and a nice bridge for Anne’s PR language. I’m going to throw that out there.  She set me up nicely for this next one. So yes, consequences.

 

24:42

are absolutely essential in order to hold people accountable.  And Anne mentioned some of the business ones, but also  one of the things we often talk about is identifying each person’s currency and using it to your advantage. And a big thing you’ve heard Anne and I talk about before  is we don’t like the word quote unquote fair, right?

 

25:07

And part of this is because what motivates one person doesn’t necessarily motivate another. And so people’s currency is different, right? And so when we talk about consequences at the individual level, you really do have to know your people well enough to know  what might sting a little  if

 

25:30

people aren’t getting on board in this new world of accountability. So  what might motivate them, right? On the other side. so  work from home is always one of the big ones that comes up. We know that a lot of our, most of our actually partners that we work with and clients  are in some level of hybrid for the most part. But one of the things we talk about right off the bat is that’s a pretty easy thing.

 

25:56

to be taken away and people should be viewing work from home as a privilege, not an automatic thing that gets to happen for them.  That’s one of the big ones that we talk through the lens of, you know, what if you take away the privileges and you say you have to be here in the office for this foreseeable future, or  when you set out to get more specific about what people should be working  on,  you can put together some time-bound and goal-oriented parameters around the things that you’re expecting of them.

 

26:26

And so if you’re gonna take something away like work from home, can be, know, until XYZ is met for this amount of time, that is not something that’s gonna be part of your day-to-day anymore, you need to come in. Or  until we work through and accomplish these things, we’re not even gonna talk about work from home, so it’s not a distraction, you’re expected to be in the office, right? Really, really tactical example, but it is one of the big ones that comes up and can be part of the…

 

26:55

quote unquote package of accountability.  The other thing that we are coming into a lot is now more than ever the generational differences  of what motivates people and what they think are important comes in.  And I think that we’re not gonna get into all of that in this episode. We would be here for hours.  But the point I’m trying to make here is that we  need to take a look at the way in which

 

27:22

we perceive things to be important to us or where we get value or like Anne said, where we are incentivized or driven and make sure  that we’re seeing that not through the lens of what’s important to us, but what’s important to everyone across the board. And then in the generational piece really does come into that.  Folks that are newer into the workforce may not value the same things that those of us that are leading as the bosses value.

 

27:48

And so again, it’s important to get to know your people. It’s important to understand what makes them tick. And then ultimately,  when we’re holding people accountable, those consequences need to be in line with each individual.  There’s no way to  build out something that’s organization wide because everybody is different. Yeah, I think  this is such an  important one because  people are really uncomfortable now.

 

28:16

Yeah, right. When we start thinking about the fact that not everything is fair. And I think where you letter that up to, because that could be a really big issue  or perceived issue for a lot of people, especially in corporate environments where, know, HR is a very real thing for a lot of people, is the fairness is the opportunity is available to everyone. Yeah. Right. So everybody has opportunity to work from home to use that as an example.

 

28:43

But there’s expectations regarding your working-behind behavior. You don’t meet the expectations, you don’t get to work from home. It’s really that simple, right? So that’s how you make sure that it’s fairly applied, but it doesn’t mean that everybody  gets to take advantage of it just because.  I use the example all the time and I’ve seen these up more and more. So I live in Madeira  and the actual, like the way that you go into the municipal building, it’s now all hatched out.

 

29:12

And there’s a sign that says basically, if your car, shows your car in the hash marks, it says $150. Car outside of hash marks says it’s free, your choice. mean, and it’s really, that is the accountability factor is like, the choice is theirs. Whether or not they choose to abide by the expectations or not is their choice, as long as they’re clearly communicating. And that’s, think, the big key to this generational

 

29:40

gap that a lot of people have been talking about.  I get it’s real guys. mean, it is very different.  Gen  Yers, Gen Xers have very different  set of  ideals and principles and Gen Zers. And now what we’re getting into Gen AA, is that what they’re called? I can’t remember.  But I mean, but that doesn’t mean that  what they value is insignificant. And that’s where we have to really be very careful that we’re not passing our own judgments onto them.

 

30:10

Because listen guys, our parents did that to us. 100%. My parents still can’t figure out for the life of me why I have somebody clean my house. Right? I mean, so just think about it. The way that our parents projected their values onto us. mean, taking vacations, oh my God. Like, you know, all these sorts of things that we do that our parents didn’t do, like working with our hands and, you know, nine to five, doing everything our bosses told us. mean, that’s…

 

30:37

mentality was our parents grew up we kind of shifted that mentality as we came into the workplace these kids are doing that as well it doesn’t mean they’re wrong it is just different so and let’s not forget as aunt still standing here on our tie box we are the ones who raised them we’re the ones who told him hey everybody gets a trophy

 

31:01

hey, however you’re feeling today is how you’re feeling today. And there’s no expectations for overcoming and just putting on your big girl boy pants and going out and doing. I these things that people, and those are just like, those are straight things that people have sold to us. Those things I get are real, but you know, you guys, that’s just the reality that we live in. And so we have to acknowledge the fact that we had a hand in this too. And the way that we get around this is by setting expectations, holding people accountable.

 

31:30

telling them this is how we work in this organization. If they don’t like it, they can go work in a different organization. That is not the talent that you are trying to pull in  and you’re trying to grow your business or your team or your organization on. We have to acknowledge that and be better stewards of the talent that we are trying to bring in and trying to develop within our organizations. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, that brings us nicely to the next one of this isn’t meant to be a  punishment.

 

31:59

I mean, we’re speaking pretty directly and in some cases strongly and maybe a little bit controversially, but you know, Anne and me by now. I mean, we’re telling it like it is. And so the point we want to make here is you’re going to get blowback. Some people are going to leave as a result of what we’re talking about here, like Anne just basically said, and you need to be okay with that. And this is another place where that being liked versus respect.

 

32:25

comes back in. It’s also just being really realistic  across the organization that when you start to put parameters like this in place, especially if they haven’t existed for a long time or never existed, it is going to be tough with people. But  the people that view it as punishment and resist as such

 

32:47

are the ones that will either leave or likely need to leave the organization because you are resetting the culture, you’re resetting how you work together, you’re resetting how you build trust, and those folks just aren’t gonna be the right ones. The good news is,  is that for  high performers  and people that are committed to the organization and feel like they wanna be there, this often ends up being more of a relief.

 

33:14

because now they understand how they’re supposed to operate. There’s less distraction. There’s less of that gray I talked about before.  And they can have a little more peace and space to do the really good job that they do. This is another place where we would say, we’re not suggesting that you become insensitive and you don’t listen to anybody, right? You don’t hear any of that feedback. You allow people to be heard within parameters again around this. If it’s constructive,

 

33:43

and people are asking real questions about how to get better at something or how to find training for something, or I’ve never had to do this before,  have those conversations. When it gets to complaining and pushback, again, that’s where you need to shut it down.  And across the board, you have to really hold your ground. In some cases,  this may feel like you’re being inflexible as your old behaviors and habits potentially go out the window and you’re resetting as well for how you operate, how you show up, all of those things.

 

34:12

But you need to make sure, and I’m channeling Ann here, that you have a talk track that is firm, clear, and consistent across the board, and that you are holding to that so that the right people stay and the wrong people can find their way, like Ann said, to another organization. Yeah, and I would just build on it to say guardrails are good. Yeah. And that’s really what we’re talking about here. And that gives people the knowledge and the understanding and the freedom to play in the sandbox.

 

34:43

in the playground, whatever your metaphor is, in a way that they can feel confident that they know what’s inside the guardrail and what’s outside the guardrail. Now, to say all that, I want Maple to also  hear me when I say these don’t have to be rigid, written in stone,  inflexible things. You might find  as you set up an expectation, as you set up a process or you set up

 

35:07

some sort of articulation  of your ideal that or your philosophy that it may not work.  And somebody might come back and have a better alternative for that. This continues to be a learning process. And I think that’s very clear to say, it’s like, listen, this is what they are until we know anything better or different. If you’re seeing that it’s too stringent, it’s not  conducive to good work, you’re…

 

35:34

losing your ability to have a good work-life balance, whatever the values that you’re trying to establish within your organization are, they can be  revised.  The thing that we in April are saying is though they don’t get revised in the moment.  Right.  it continues to be data. So for example, if you’re expecting something on a Tuesday and somebody turns it in on a Wednesday and you ask why didn’t I have it on the Wednesday?

 

36:01

They may say, well, I had five things I was supposed to deliver. It’s like, oh, OK, well, that’s the learning for me. Then I need to help people prioritize, right? And then I need to communicate, well, you need to be proactive. Remember that communication thing we were talking about? If you’re going to be late on something that I needed to know it’s going to be late, you can’t just be late. So that’s the accountability factor. So  maybe then you’ll think about, oh, I need to step in and prioritize a little bit in order to help people focus or help people focus and drive clarity. So is it continued learned process?

 

36:30

But the thing is you just don’t let the Wednesday kind of show up and be like, oh, okay, well, I get it. That’s fine then. This next time, make sure you turn it in on time. It’s important, right? Have the conversation, make sure that the consequences are clear. And that’s could be in the kind of the context that April and I talked about from a business standpoint, it’s like, hey, because you’re late, now we’re gonna be late to the client. And guess what? You get to go tell the client why we’re gonna be late. Every time it’s very mean, I can tell you,

 

37:00

that next time that person is not going to be late because they are not going to want to be the person who has to go tell the client why we’re late. Yep, or let down the team or let down the team the boss or all the things. So these are this is like some of the discipline and I know sometimes it’s like well, we’re not their parents. Why do we have to go do this? It’s like well, I can tell you I’ve given this feedback to 20 year olds and 45 year olds guys. So this is just this is the manner in the style by which you want to operate your business.

 

37:28

how you want to operate your team, how you want to operate your organization. This is built on a structure and infrastructure, mission, vision, values. You need to uphold them. That’s the only integrity you have. Absolutely. And I think this is where reframing the conversation to what is necessary for the business, like you just said, Anne,  is so important because  one of the other things we see as a symptom  of a lack of accountability is people don’t understand their role in the organization at that bigger level.

 

37:58

while we maintain and we will always maintain that people are our most important asset in a company, there are times where  a reset like this  really  shows where the organization has been limping along. And there is a lot of emotion associated with it, which is why you get symptoms like pointing fingers or people hiding or all of those various things. And so  when this exercise is going on, helping people both

 

38:28

learn if that’s what it necessitates, the business that they’re in and where their role sits,  as well as  making the  reasons why we’re doing this be because foundationally the business  is suffering in these ways, or we want to grow, we won’t be able to do it in the current environment. Whatever that looks like and tying that back for people  helps take some of that emotion out of the conversation. This is also a place where some companies use this

 

38:57

as a time to kind of clean house on the recalibration of the staff that’s needed. And we’ve talked before and just recently in  an episode on leadership about  how the people that were right for your organization in the past may not be right for the future of the organization.  That can be a tough thing to do as well. And so while it is all about getting the right people in the right seats for the health of the organization and the culture we’re trying to build and the mission vision values and all of that.

 

39:24

this accountability really needs to be linked very closely for all of these reasons to what we’re trying to do  as a business.  And this is also a tool that we recommend to our leaders and managers and people that are in positions of having to make these decisions  is you’re not doing the organization a favor, but you’re also not doing the people a favor if they really aren’t fit for where the future of the organization’s going.  And so getting really clear and objective

 

39:52

from the business lens can be a real help throughout this process toward accountability. Yeah. What I’ll say about this one too is  a big question we get asked a lot, April, is when do I take accountability for my team  with upper management or with the clients?  when do I let them kind of like feel the pain and when do I take accountability? And really there is no hard line on this. You have to assess it based on what is best for your team.

 

40:22

and for your business. like I said in the example I just gave, when I said  you then let  the person on the team go tell the client why you’re going to be late, people are like, oh no, I can’t do that.  I’m the front person with the client and then that’ll make that person look bad. You know what, that could be very real and I’m not telling you guys how to go run your team. But I do know and I  think April will back me up on this is that again, our generation tends to take a lot of accountability on that we shouldn’t.

 

40:52

We tend to shield a lot of  our folks and our teams and from  the quote unquote pain or the tension or the blowback or the feedback and they never learn. Yep. So there’s, is a point in time where sometimes they need to feel a little of the pain and they need to feel a little bit of like what it’s like to be you, but not in a way that is going to be a detriment to  yourself.

 

41:20

your team or that person. again, it’s a very different line. Yeah, it’s a very different line for a lot of people. But just know that when you’re taking accountability for your team, it’s not necessarily at all cost. It’s not necessarily in all situations. I’m going to shield my whole entire team from whatever’s coming down because sometimes they need to see that. They need to see

 

41:47

their leaders and they need to see that, hear that feedback directly from the leader, for example, of like, I was very disappointed by that. That can have a really big impact on people and motivating people  with regards to  getting them accountable for your expectations. It’s like, hey, does anybody else want to go through that? Because I certainly don’t want to go through that again. And it becomes a team thing then of, hey, us as a team, we don’t want to go and be sitting there in the hot seat in front of our leadership anymore, right? Right.

 

42:16

share a little bit of the pain, let them kind of know what  you’re feeling too, because that helps to drive that why, that helps to drive that context for these business decisions. Because sometimes, even though we want  to have a  little bit of that hierarchy, and I’m not saying hierarchy is bad, I actually think hierarchy is good, we  don’t want to have them so far down that they don’t see

 

42:41

what is going on on the other side because then there’s no relatability and then it becomes a job. There’s not  a lack of investment in the why. So to the extent that you can get them into that, which is me knowing their leadership in some sort of context, understanding the business, the broader business goals, understanding where the business is, the vision is, what’s painting the business right now, like what’s the tension, making sure they understanding all of those important things and getting some exposure  is really, really important.

 

43:12

Yeah, and then it doesn’t, it also doesn’t have to be so black and white. I mean, you know, Anne and me to be very direct, you know, with the example of have them go tell the client for some people. And if you know your people well enough, the threat of this time I’m going to take care of it. But the next time you’re telling the client might be enough to Anne’s point about like, don’t mess up the relationship. Right.  Or in other cases, it is sometimes  starting with providing the visibility, right?

 

43:39

you guys, didn’t meet this thing now for the third time. So here’s what happened. I went and it wasn’t just my boss, it was my boss’s boss. And I sat in that room and I took the heat. The next time that’s not gonna happen, I’m gonna have them come talk to you. I’m not gonna continue to do this.  So there are also shades and options within that based on the individual, based on the temperature of the team, based on the severity of the situation, right?  As a former account person, it would be very hard for me to just…

 

44:06

send someone to the wolves of the client and have to do that off the first offense.  But if it’s the third one, I wouldn’t think twice about it.  So just hear us in the feeling of the repercussions, the feeling of the pain, sharing in the responsibility, and then owning our own accountability as leaders and making sure that we are exposing our people where it will have an impact and they’ll really see it versus taking the heat all the time. Because that is something

 

44:35

we never recommend and that’s actually something we often have to  work out of a lot of our more senior leaders.  One more point on that. I think that’s very important for people to hear because what then our senior leaders or  what the people would coach or the leaders will say is like, well, then that looks bad on me.  It looks bad on my brand. But again, it goes back to what April was saying about the control thing. Like the more we try to control it,

 

45:01

though it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, the more it tends to disintegrate.  And so  you have to think about the bigger objective here. If you can see in your heads like, yeah, I might take a little bit of a hit for my brand here,  if Joe over here can see what’s going on over here, this might solve itself a whole lot quicker than me continuing to take  the hit or the rap for everything that’s going on.

 

45:28

Think about the long-term objective because nothing looks better than winning. Nothing looks better than performing well, doing good work, having a team that’s all in it. And sometimes it’s not the easy thing to do, but it can be the best thing in order to motivate the team to getting them to work as a highly effective team to develop that work and to win at a high level. So just…

 

45:56

Consider that again, there’s no like hard and fast rule, but I’m pretty sure if we said that you know, it’s you, you’re probably going, yeah, I probably do that a little bit more than I should. I could probably play with that a little bit more. So just be honest with yourself too. Absolutely. Amen on that. All right. So we talked about a tough topic today with rebuilding or building accountability. So just a reminder of the things we covered.

 

46:26

getting really clear very quickly that there’s an accountability issue that needs to be addressed. A company-wide reset or team-wide or organization-wide, depending on who you are, immediately that puts people on notice that things are gonna shift and change and there’s gonna be a new outline of what accountability looks like.  Getting specific for each person, not necessarily fair, but specific to what they need to be doing and what their currency is and what might feel

 

46:56

well, may have impact,  shall we say, to them  if they don’t do what they’re supposed to be doing and those consequences. The lens that this is not a punishment, but some people will take it that way, which in the broader sense will be good for the organization because those that aren’t a fit will leave or you’ll identify them as people that aren’t gonna fit.  And reframing the conversation always to what is necessary for the business, both for each individual and the role they play,  but also where the business is suffering from the lack of accountability.

 

47:26

And with that, encourage you to take at least one powerful insight. Hopefully there were many today that you heard and put it into practice because remember,  strategic counsel is only effective if you put it into action.  Did we spark something with this episode that you want to talk about further?  Reach out to us through our website, ForthRight-People.com.  We can help you customize what you have heard to move your business  and make sure to follow or subscribe to Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast platform!