4 Ways to Use Brand Archetypes Effectively: Show Notes & Transcript
Welcome back to Marketing Smarts! From brand-building and marketing veterans Anne Candido and April Martini (that’s us) comes a podcast committed to cutting through all the confusing marketing BS so you can actually understand how to take action and change your business today. We deep-dive into topics most would gloss-over, infusing real-world examples from our combined 35+ years of corporate and agency experience. We tell it how it is so whether you are just starting out or have been in business awhile, you have the Marketing Smarts to immediately impact your business.
In this episode, we’re talking how to use brand archetypes effectively. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review if you’re exercising your Marketing Smarts!
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- Marketing Smarts Summary
Marketing Smarts: 4 Ways to Use Brand Archetypes Effectively
The Hero. The Caregiver. The Everyman. You might have heard of brand archetypes. But what actually are they? And how do you use them effectively? Brand archetypes emerge from a sound understanding of the brand, and most brands have more than one archetype. You can use them effectively by aligning on their use within your organization and investing in tools to bring them to life. It can be a difficult subject, but we came prepared with the examples and analogies you need to make your own brand archetypes come to life. This episode covers everything from brand archetypes to company culture. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:
- How do you use brand archetypes effectively?
- What are they?
- Where do they emerge from?
- What do brand story and brand character have to do with brand archetypes?
- How many archetypes should brands have?
- What goes into aligning on how archetypes will be used in your organization?
- How do you invest in creating tools that will bring them to life?
- What did Delta get right with customer service?
And as always, if you need help in building your Marketing Smarts, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at: ForthRight-People.com.
Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:
- 4 Ways to Use Brand Archetypes Effectively
- [0:00] Welcome to Marketing Smarts
- [0:30] Anne Candido, April Martini
- [0:41] How do you use brand archetypes effectively?
- [1:19] What are brand archetypes?
- [1:27] Carl Jung, Google
- [2:10] Archetypes emerge from a sound understanding of the brand…not the other way around
- [4:18] “4 Reasons to Start with a Brand Story“, “4 Guidelines for Creating a Strong Brand Character“
- [5:18] Tide
- [7:39] Most brands have more than one archetype
- [9:37] Nike
- [9:53] Dyson
- [11:38] Brand Archetype Wheel
- [13:03] Marketing Smarts is sponsored by ScottMautz.com. Scott Mautz is a popular keynote speaker and #1 bestselling author whose latest book and talk Leading from the Middle helps middle managers dramatically increase their influence up, down, and across their organization. Want your company’s middle managers and leaders equipped to foster a high-performing organization? Want them inspired to drive the change and transformation that’s a challenging necessity moving forward? Go to ScottMautz.com to check out Leading from the Middle and all of Scott’s keynotes, trainings, courses, and books
- [13:59] Align on how archetypes will be used in your organization
- [18:38] Company Culture
- [19:44] Invest in creating tools that will bring them to life
- [24:15] Coca-Cola
- [25:08] Old Spice
- [28:58] P&G (Procter & Gamble), Facebook
- Marketing Smarts Moments
- [31:14] Delta Air Lines
- [34:58] Recap: How do you use brand archetypes effectively?
- [35:44] Make sure to follow Marketing Smarts on your favorite podcast spot and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts
- [35:55] Learn more at ForthRight-People.com and connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn
- [36:01] Sign up to view all the ForthRight worksheets & tips for FREE!
- [36:07] Shop our Virtual Consultancy
What is Marketing Smarts?
From brand-building and marketing veterans Anne Candido and April Martini comes a podcast committed to cutting through all the confusing marketing BS so you can actually understand how to take action and change your business today. They deep-dive into topics most would gloss-over, infusing real-world examples from their combined 35+ years of corporate and agency experience. They tell it how it is so whether you are just starting out or have been in business awhile, you have the Marketing Smarts to immediately impact your business.
How do I exercise my Marketing Smarts?
Thanks for listening to Marketing Smarts. Get in touch here to become a savvier marketer.
Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.
Anne Candido 0:02
This is Marketing Smarts – a podcast committed to helping you become a savvier marketing leader, no matter your level. In each episode, we will dive into a relevant topic or challenge that marketing leaders are currently facing. We will also give you practical tools and applications that will help you put what you learn into practice today. And if you miss anything, don’t worry, we put worksheets on our website that summarize the key points. Now, let’s get to it. Welcome to
April Martini 0:30
Anne Candido 0:31
I’m Anne Candido.
April Martini 0:32
And I am April Martini. And as we often like to do, we’re going to shed some insight onto a topic that is sometimes difficult to understand. And that is brand archetypes. We have used them and seen them used in various ways across our collective experience and feel like this is a good opportunity to help clarify for all of you that are unsure about them, but also gives them insight into how and why they are used.
Anne Candido 0:57
I’m not going to list all 12 archetypes here, but for context, they include things like the hero, the caregiver, the Everyman. And you can probably Intuit at least with those three what those likely mean, as far as brand personalities go, yes. And first and foremost, let’s define archetypes. We’re all on the same page. Before we begin this discussion. The founder of the 12 archetype models is Carl Jung, spelled J U N G, for those of you guys who are actually looking it up. His belief is that there are 12 universal patterns of thought that exists as the foundation of all personality types. So what does that mean? It means that we can actually identify the traits and people or brands that define their personality and turn with intention by using this archetype model.
April Martini 1:42
Yes. And I will say we’re not going to dive too deeply into the psychology of this topic in this intro, or throughout this episode, quite frankly, if you want to learn more about Carl Jung, you can learn everything you ever wanted to know if you just go Google him. Today we’re focused on how to use archetypes for your brand. And with that, we will get into what are brand archetypes and how to use them effectively. The first one is, archetypes emerge from a sound understanding of the brand, not the other way around. We’ll probably sound like a broken record with this point. But it really is imperative that you do your due diligence before you land on an archetype. This means that you make the effort to become immersed in your clients business and brand through some level of discovery. Too often we have seen archetypes used as a magic bullet or a band aid approach to solving a brand challenge. Archetypes are a tool in the toolkit. Archetypes are not the savior of a brand, especially one that may be in trouble. And so when we think about discovery, we try not to put too much of a formulaic process around it. So you know that about us, we try to customize our approach based on each client where they are and what their needs are. And the same goes for archetypes. But you really do need to have some level of insight and input into five main areas before you jump in. They are the business, the brand, what category are we serving? Who’s the direct competition in the space? And ultimately, who are we serving? Who’s the customer, consumer or client? Once you have those inputs you are looking for? What makes the brand tick? What exists today, as far as insights go against those five areas? And what are some potential pain points or problems that the business needs to solve? This really results in a synthesis of your key learnings associated with the business and the brand. It includes identifying what their real challenges are, and then identifying what role can the archetype play in solving said problems, I will do a little bit of a spoiler alert, hear that there may be some other brand tools that need to be developed before you can get to an archetype. We have episodes on these things like brand story and brand character really, really specifically. And archetypes can be used as an input to defining your brand character. But I just want to make the point that this is not, Oh, I’ll pick an archetype and that will solve all the world’s problems. That’s not true. It just becomes a tool in that overall toolkit.
Anne Candido 4:20
Yeah, and I would say this one’s all about authenticity, right? And it’s really about distilling down who you are, and maybe who you want to be because you can’t live your brand, if you’re trying to play an archetype that your brand doesn’t feel naturally inclined to live up to. And this is where a lot of people come into a lot of conflict when the people that they’re trying to serve because they try to act one way and the people they’re trying to serve their target consumers customers. Clients are like, What are you doing? That is not you? That’s not who you’re supposed to be that it doesn’t feel right to me, which is usually the biggest ignol That you’re not living the right archetype, which is why it’s so important to understand your business, and understand what your business is going to mean to people in order to get that, right. And I can give an example based on my history of working on tide. And actually, this will extend to a lot of other businesses who are trying to play in more of the emotional space where it’s, maybe it’s very socially charged. And we’re all trying to play along those lines of some of the political, social, like matters and, and those sorts of things. And this is some of the biggest feedback we’ve given clients is, if your archetype isn’t and we might not use the word archetype isn’t actually suited for that conversation, you probably should stay away from it, because then you just look like you’re an imposter. So back to the example I was going to stay, this was a big conversation, we always have a tie now, tied in its most fundamental, got your clothes clean, we were the stage on that we were the expert on that, right, we would come out, we could talk forever, about how to get your clothes clean. But as soon as we were trying to tell people, you’re a better mother, if you use tide, that started going out to a totally different realm, right? Like, we can’t tell people that they’re wrong, or they’re right, or you’re going to be a better parent, because that starts coming up. judgy, right, that’s a different archetype, we don’t have the right to play in that archetype. So we cannot do that in a way that our audience is receptive. So that’s a really great diagnostic tool. And you might not be using the word archetype as you’re actually kind of diagnosing might might be going on and why you’re not meeting your your customers, clients, consumers where they’re at. But that might be a good tool to kind of say, hey, what one of these do we think our customers, clients, consumers think we are? Which one? Are we actually showing up? As? Do they actually complement each other? Do they did they actually meet where they’re supposed to?
April Martini 6:52
Yeah. And I think it’s one of those things where you have to be a little bit careful if you’re a sage within the crux of your business and what you provide. That’s one thing that doesn’t give you carte blanche to be a sage about everything in the entire world, or just offer that caveat sounds a little bit like that’s where things went wrong with that situation, we made too big of a leap.
Anne Candido 7:11
Right, exactly. That’s exactly the case. And I think it’s, again, just to drive apparel, because I think it’s a really important point, when you’re trying to explore outside of your core benefit, and you’re trying to play in some of these other arenas that are more sensitive, that are more charged, because you feel like that’s going to make you more popular. Just be very, very careful.
April Martini 7:31
Yep. 100%. Well, and I think that brings us nicely to the second point here, which is most brands have more than one archetype. There are many examples out there and explanations of archetypes that pair a specific brand with a specific one of the 12. And you just heard and do that with staying tight as being the sage, I am not going to contradict all of the work, I’m certainly not going to contradict Carl Jung or any of his founding principles. That’s not the point of what I’m stating here. What I’m wanting to state is it is really good to simplify because this can be a really tough thing for people to get their minds around. So drawing parallels between brands, and their fundamental archetype is super smart, and it helps people get their minds around it. And it also helps people take something that is highly, highly conceptual, and in their brain switch to how does this come to life. So I am a huge proponent and fan of doing that. That’s not the point of this point. The point here is that as humans as with brands, we are not one dimensional. And what I have seen happen where archetypes go wrong is when people try to force a single lens and interpretation of one archetype on their brand and get so stringent that it becomes really impersonal, unemotional, and highly contrived, which, as all of you know, by now is the opposite of what a brand is meant to do. A brand is meant to be your most powerful tool at that really, truly, authentically emotional connection with folks. And that’s where archetypes can be great. And they can be an amazing tool in the toolkit to helping you to get there and be authentic in it. But I think the reason this happens is because you see, okay, you know, Nike is listed as the hero, right? Okay, yes, that’s completely true. Nike also has shades of others of the archetypes, like Creator and Ruler. They’re constantly reinventing their space and they are a very strong leader when it comes to everyone can be an athlete, and they can perform by using their clothes, right or their shoes or whatever gear you buy from Nike, right? So that’s one I think, really intuitive example. Another one here is Dyson is professed to be the magician that makes a ton of sense, right? They reinvented a category to the point where you could vacuum and actually not see stuff on the floor anymore. And it was quick and easy and super efficient. But Dyson also has some of the sage and some of the ruler for the same reasons that tide is the sage, they really are the premier in the category. Or you could argue there’s lots of others me just say, oh, that’s just okay, that’s okay. So they so they are. So let’s just stop that there. And then from a ruler perspective, they rule in the way that they continue to innovate and create. So you see a little creator within their category so you can start to see, okay, fundamentally, Dyson is the magician, they are one of the few brands that I believe can truly own that space. There’s a levity, there’s a magic, there’s a oh my gosh, it’s super clean to the brand, right. But there are still other components in their within their personality and the foundation of who they are. And if they only ever played up one way of being that magician, it would fall flat and you wouldn’t connect with the brand, they also wouldn’t have the allowance to go into these other more innovative spaces necessarily, because the allowance wouldn’t be as much about the technology as in the outcome of what happens, right. So back to the purpose of this episode, when you start to dive into the archetypes you should be looking for ones that make the most sense for the brand to own and bring to life there is an archetypal wheel out there, you can Google that as well. There’s many, many iterations, or also archetypal wheels that will show you a brand associated with each of them. The point of this episode is not to educate you on all of the options, it is meant to educate you on the use of archetypes. So tons of tools out there, and I did not create them. So Google away and find what you need.
Anne Candido 11:41
And I love that. Yeah. And I think those are really, really good examples of really exemplify how archetypes are used. And I would just find to what you just said with it’s a strategic choice. Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is where a lot of brands get caught up. Because they’re like, there’s 12 of them. They’re like, but we’re all of them. Or were this one one day and this one the other day, and this one like this is why brands start looking very fragmented. Yeah, it’s because they can’t align on a specific place to land and anchor the brand. And again, as April said, it doesn’t need to be in one specific archetype, but one is going to lead. So you have to find one that feels the most like you. And then you find ones that are kind of like how you said like shades of you, right, that actually allow you to extend into other messaging or other content strategies that might appeal to different consumers, and client bases, right. But you have to make a strategic choice. And these are the ones you’re gonna play on. Because then you have to build consistency with your communication strategy with your content strategy, with the way that you show up with the way that you are going to communicate with your consumers, clients and customers, right? All of those things need to reinforced or be reinforced by the archetypes you choose. So you have to be very choice here and just realize, you can’t showcase all of them, you can still be them to some extent, but you can’t showcase all of them.
April Martini 13:01
Yes, absolutely. All right. Number three, align on how archetypes will be used in your organization. So you heard and already say you may or may not use the word archetype, that is part of this discussion here. I also said in the beginning that we weren’t going to get into the psychology of archetypes. This point is really made up of the same sentiment when it comes to your business, your employees, your clients, whoever you’re using archetypes to serve, or whoever’s business, your business, your employees, your clients may not want to go down the rabbit hole of the how the sausage is made in terms of archetypes for a variety of reasons. They don’t have the time, they don’t have the patience, they don’t have the wherewithal to do it. All of those reasons are totally fine. You are on the hook if you’re going to use archetypes to determine this for your company or clients so that they can be used effectively. And I will stop here and give an example of kind of the different ends of the spectrum. So obviously, I’m on the agency side, we had one client and their organization, and specifically the founder were very creatively led. They were in the makeup category. She was, you know, had started the business in her kitchen, you know, just love the creative process and everything that it entailed. And so her team came and we had first of all done our homework to the point about understanding the brand, what it has, what it doesn’t have one stands for all of those things. But they were a little bit muddy on their personality, and were really falling quite flat and the business was evolving. And like you just said they were looking to bring in new consumers, younger folks into the business. So for a whole host of reasons. We needed to help identify what their archetype and their personality was going to be. The four of them dove into this with us and freaking love the process. Yeah, I mean, they had a great time and And we were able to come to something that everyone felt really great about. Now we had done our homework beforehand. So the pitfall of wanting to be all 12 was not an option, we very strategically directed them to three different options that were already mapped out beforehand, I’m giving you a peek behind the curtain of the agency model here. But the point I want to make is this was a client and a client team that were very hands on very creatively led, and wanted to be a part of the process. On the other side of things, I have a former diagnostic company client who wanted nothing to do with how the sausage was made. And, you know, for them, that was, look, we hired you guys, we are so far out of our depths anyway, I never ever used the word archetype in front of them ever period, the end, we gave them their personality. Now all the work was done the same way. It’s not that there’s a different level of diligence or that you know, we strayed from using them entirely, I really do believe that they’re an extremely powerful tool. And anytime you can get to something really fundamental that has existed for a long time, it’s super, super helpful. But the point of them was No, no, you just bring it to us bring us a few options, let us try them on, we had to get pretty tactical, we had to show how they would come to life in execution. Totally fine, both ends of the spectrum. And we’ve had everything in between as well. But it is really, really important. And we’ve talked a lot about process and how and and I don’t believe in putting our process on top of anyone else. The same is true with this point, whether it’s your own business, or it’s your whole organization, or it’s a client, you really have to think about what they’re going to have the threshold and the patience for and then bring them the tools that they need, you can still use archetypes at all points in the process. I will say predominantly for Anne and me right now, because we’re working with small to midsize businesses that need to get to outcomes very quickly. They didn’t necessarily want to have a ton of involvement in this, nor do I feel like they should because they need to put their dollars to work immediately. And that means we have to be faster, we have to be really diligent, and we have to bring them the same level of work without forcing them to be part of the process and really specifically part of the archetypal process.
Anne Candido 17:15
Yeah, I think that’s all very, very true. And I had some different reactions when we try to instill it at P&G, especially with brands who’ve been around for a very, very long time. Yes. So different situation. Yes. So it is a little bit different depending on how and where and why you would use those in certain contexts. But the one place, I did see it work very, very well was on internal branding and the culture development. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, yeah. So it definitely helps you put some language around how you want to behave as a culture, which then can lead to some missing vision, values, articulation, but it starts to provide a tangible way for people to kind of experience and just relate and talk about what it’s like to be in your company or working within this team or so I’ve seen it done in the team level, I’ve seen it done and a function level, I’ve seen it done in a company business level as well. And it just kind of provides some, like I said tangible ness to it. So it gives a definition, it gives some analogies for how other businesses or other cultures might behave like this. And it gives something almost kind of like when we talk about the brief for you to go back to when the culture is not being upheld in the way that you said and you’re like, Hey, listen, guys, we were going to be more like this, this is kind of how we aligned over we’re going to be we’re we’re going to be the magicians for our company, right? We’re not acting like the magician’s for our company. And this is the reasons why. So then you can start articulating criteria and behaviors and success analysis and in all kinds of ways of being able to incentivize people. And then as well as being able to provide rewards against that, right. So it just provides something to reflect upon. So that’s another really great use of the tool that I’ve seen.
April Martini 19:01
Yeah, and I think that brings us nicely to our next point, because I think you just contextualized what happens after you develop one. And that is the fourth point is invest in creating the tools that will bring them to life. And like and just exemplified there’s lots of different ways for this to happen. Again, the point of an archetype is to inform other things within your organization that actually become tangible things. It’s not just to put the archetype on a piece of paper. And this is the same for any strategic tool, right? You have to bring it to life, especially with something like this topic, which can be tricky to educate your team, your business or your clients on the usage becomes the most important thing because it determines whether people will actually put it into practice and continue to use it or not. And just gave some fabulous examples of where archetypes can be used. It can be brand personality, mission, vision values, cultural exercises, all of those things. When we get into the nitty gritty detail of the toolkit, associated with archetypes we are huge fans of before and after executions of any kind of materials that are going to be applicable to putting the archetype into action. So if we’re talking mission vision values and just said, you know, what are the ways we’re not operating as a magician? And how do we need to go and do that operating principles, right? Sometimes we take marketing materials, if it’s more about the personality inside and out of the brand, or the organization, it’s, this is how you wrote this before, this is how you write this now, based on your archetype. So anywhere, we can get super, super specific and provide not only the archetype, not only the strategic tools, but actual things that people can take away and start to use. And even better if it can be in terms of things they’ve seen before. And we’ll see again, people get a lot more comfortable when you can hand them something and say, you know, this piece of collateral used to look and sound like this, now it goes to hear and then it starts to click in their brains, because they can physically see the differences and start to internalize them. Yep. Now, this does require education, you do not have to talk or archetypes again, but back and forth reviews with the teams that are putting the work in into place, having people try it out and come back to you to evaluate whoever you are in the organization is the owner of this process, doing some of the work on their behalf at first so that they can understand how what they’ve been doing isn’t necessarily how things will look going forward. Just being there overall, to assist in the process. Archetypes are a big one where you can’t just love people and leave them, you have to make sure that they feel the support because it is a little bit tenuous for folks, you know, it’s a different way of thinking it’s a different way of doing, it’s a completely different lens than they’ve been operating. And so in order to appropriately jar them into this new way of thinking, you want to be there to help create and provide those assets.
Anne Candido 22:03
Yeah, and I think that is a really good point. So maybe April, you can kind of give some examples of how brands have traditionally used archetypes well, and then maybe some brands who’ve tried if you have any off the top of your head who have tried to use one and it doesn’t work. I mean, I use the tide when I have the tide example. So it’s harder to think of the ones who didn’t work. But yeah, you have some examples.
April Martini 22:24
Yeah. So probably the examples I will not name how about that, but because it’s it’s typically client based, but Okay, so let’s just go big brand again. Right. Okay. So let’s do Coca-Cola, which is one that everybody knows, right. So they are the innocent, and the innocent is a hard issue. Yeah, to embrace, especially to get to a big brand place because they tend to be a little bit recessive sometimes, and when not used appropriately, they get a little meek and mild. And so for a big brand to own this, I think is really, really interesting. However, Coca-Cola also has some of the caregiver aspect because they’re about bringing people together. And they have some everyman in because it’s really like anyone can pick up a Coca-Cola. Right. And I think the innocent comes to like, if you think about like, their happiness campaign, it was all about or the were they I forget the one where they put the people’s names on the candidates
Anne Candido 23:21
as you’d like. Yeah, the Everyman and we’ll see you like, exactly. More knee your name Masonic,
April Martini 23:25
yeah, everybody, right, or just little moments of pleasure, they do a really good job of understanding that they are a beverage, they’re not trying to play outside of that. And and so I think that innocent personality, if you think about them, they’re very disciplined, and they do a really nice job of coming back to that. And the other thing about them is they have been able to expand their brand and the experience of their brand, so far beyond their original brand elements, and it still holds they’re just a really good case study and example, if you look at their campaigns over the years, I would even say like the polar bears feel innocent to me. They do. Yep, yeah, I was actually gonna say that one too. Like the seasonality of that there’s just like such a wholesomeness is what I would say to them. And I actually think that wholesomeness is the combination of what has come to life, even though they’re grounded in the innocent. So I think that’s a good one. I think one that’s really hard to embrace, but they’ve done a good job as Old Spice as the Jester. Yeah. And they’ve reinvented and okay, you can say what you want to say going I was that reinvention. So I was living that. Yes. So different demographic, right, that they were going, they’re reinventing themselves, and they took on, I actually, I will say, I was not a huge fan of the work. I’m also not the target. And I totally understood and appreciate it. And one of the agencies I was at we worked on it and the team that was on it was exactly the team that should have been working on that business. So I can I appreciate the ingenuity maybe didn’t like all of the executions, I guess I will say, but I mean, again, if you think about them, there are also components there. There’s a little bit of sage. They’ve been around a really long time they know what they’re doing the products are sound. And there’s an everyman component to it to which I think it was interesting to watch the reinvention to go to adjuster when you had a little bit of that every man. But I think the accessibility of the products, and the way that after the initial surprise, I guess, the whole thing kind of calmed down. And you could get back to, you know, the reinvention kind of settled into a little bit of that space that they had always owned, as well. So I think those are a couple of really good big brand examples, where I’ve seen it go wrong is a lot of times within businesses where there are, let’s say, more formalities. So I’ve had clients like, for example, in the financial space, where I will say that the one diagnostic one we did did a really nice job of leaning into this, we would run up against and get to like a certain point, and then they just couldn’t make the leap. And the unfortunate thing that I would see there is that folks would get really invested in excited about a change not only at the company level, business external, but internally to get to more of what you talked about before around the cultural aspects and how impactful that could be, and how much change could happen within the organization and still be a pretty conservative type of organization. But as soon as we would get to the point of like, pushing the button to say go of actually activating, there would always be I don’t think we can do this. And so eventually, it just became watered down to a point where I won’t say we didn’t make some good progress, we really, really did, there were areas of the company, we were able to impact. But if people had gone a little bit more all in in it and let the people who could make it come to life work with us, it just would have had a lot more longevity. The other thing I will say is that it never holistically made its way externally as a result, either. And so there were some actually accolades, awards and things for the work done. It’s just when you’re part of the vision and what could have been, and then the execution falls flat. That’s where I see it just kind of be a man, we were so close. So and and I mean, I also don’t want to discredit the organizations, right, like that organization was hugely successful for being conservative. And I could understand on some level, why also a giant organization, it’s really hard to create change, so I’m not bashing in any way. It’s just one of those things where we just got so close, and it could have been so amazing. So it’s not for the faint of heart, I will say that archetypes or you know, personality reinvention, or any of the things we’ve talked about, quite frankly,
Anne Candido 27:48
yeah, and I think you bring up a really, really important point is that you have to have the infrastructure and the support. Yeah, everybody involved, there are decision makers and stakeholders in order to make these transitions, especially if you’re talking about internal culture, and using the archetypes in order to determine or identify an internal culture. And I saw this a ton. And I’ve made this comment a gazillion times. So I’ll make it again, is that you know, when we’re seeing in the P&G world, and we’re all trying to figure out how we’re going to be more of the Creator, right? Even though our mantra is not to be the creator. If there was a facilitator archetype, that would be us. But you go to Google, and you go to Facebook, and we go to get all inspired by these infrastructures that are in place, and then we question why we can’t put them in place in ours? Well, the big reason why is because the structure and the stakeholders, yep, they’re not permitting that to happen in that kind of context, or not leaning into that. So and that’s where everybody gets really disappointed a little bit disenchanted is like when we want to be the creator, but we can’t be the creator, because like, then you just have to admit that that’s just not gonna be your archetype. And so then you might be able to have a sheet of that you might be able to figure out what how do we bring more of that into the work we’re doing. But it totally takes the people who are in charge the managers in order to instill a new archetype or to live in archetype. If you’re not going to do it, then don’t expect your people to do it either. So I say that from a culture standpoint, because I think it’s really important, but I think it lends itself to the brand to, to your point, if you’re not going to go all in with it. That doesn’t mean you have to go like extreme to one side or the other. But if you’re not willing to go all in on it, then it really is going to get watered down, it’s going to fall flat, it’s not going to feel authentic back to the original point that I made, that this is the brand that you have defined, and this is the space that your brand is going to live in. Because then people are going to sniff that out your your clients, consumers and customers are going to sniff that and be like, they’re posing, they’re trying something new. Yeah, this is where I’ve seen a lot of brands fall flat to when they tried to kind of go on some of those fringes or tried new archetypes and then you’re just like, yeah, that didn’t work. It’s because you’re not committed and people content and people can sense that. So I think those work points that you made.
April Martini 30:01
Awesome. All right in our final segment is where we highlight companies or brands that may or may not be using their marketing smarts. And I am going to potentially make a controversial statement here. And I
Anne Candido 30:14
boy, this is the script people. So this is new. I don’t even know what it is. No, no, no, I need my beeper ready?
April Martini 30:20
Oh, no, nothing like that. But I’ve been thinking about this. So and, and I went to Hilton Head last week to visit with her daughter and a friend who are on spring break, and we flew delta. And with all the negative things there are to say about the airlines lately, the reason I want to bring this up is we were delayed. We made it there to Savannah eight hours later than we were supposed to. Yeah. However, as I reexamine that experience, I will say that every person that was part of Delta Airlines that we had contact with that day, was highly highly human, helpful, empathetic, and tried to bring a little bit of levity to the situation, right. And I think that, you know, they get a bad rap, I am guilty of always using them as the example of like, we use them to go on vacations to all these amazing places, but they’re like the necessary evil to getting there. I’m, like, always the one to say that. But as I thought back on the experience, I thought about, you know, first I get to the gate agent, and the flight they had put me on was a 6am flight, which was earlier than my original one, and how the heck would that have worked, right. And she had just a great energy about her about the whole thing. She fixed it, she got it all taken care of, she was cheerful, she was happy to help. And we kind of had some banter back and forth. That could have been excruciating cheese and crackers. Yeah, she was expression cheese and crackers. And she said, I say that a lot throughout my day. So you know, and then we got to the gate and the flight was delayed again. And so I went up into put us on a different plane, please, like I’ve written out too many of these parts coming apart is coming and never actually making it to the destination that could have been combative. It wasn’t there were lovely about it. In fact, there were only two seats left. So the one woman flagged down another one and said make sure that you get her in as well, seamless, painless. We went to the Crown room, the bartender was lovely, she chatted our year off, you know, went out of her way. We said we were delayed and she’s like, Oh, honey, everybody is today, you know, but people have been gracious and grateful. And you know, whatever. And a little bit of orange juice and all that champagne and a little bit of orange juice, a lot of champagne lessons we wanted that’s, that’s true. We talked about her nails. So you know, reporter there. And then when we got to the gate, and the new flight was delayed, even those two women were, you know, able to joke with us, you know, by that point, we had our wine in a cup. And, you know, they’re like, well trade you, you know, and then also just, I mean, the airlines in both of the delay situations had snacks and drinks on the counter, which now we know is a sign that your flights in trouble. So ya know, maybe in the long term, you see snacks and water, you just just just turn around and go
Anne Candido 33:07
back to the bar.
April Martini 33:07
Yeah. But I mean, I just want to make the point that across all touch points that day, and there were a lot of them, it was a positive experience, out of a negative experience. And I think it just goes to show that when brands can lean into what is supposed to be the positive, emotional, empathetic connection with their consumers. And take another moment and identify with them. I commend them. And then also I will just say that is a hard job to do. And the fact that all of those people were able to do it with a smile on their face with every flight to Atlanta, I felt like being delayed that day. Just kudos to them and just unexpected in a positive way.
Anne Candido 33:49
So archetypal, do you think that they are or they were living? dealt?
April Martini 33:52
I think they’re a caregiver? Yeah, I was. I said, Yeah, yep. In that instance, I think that’s what they strive for. I mean, even when they like change, like the purple uniforms, I got into a conversation with somebody about that. And it was like, Oh, well, warmer color, not trying to be the blue of the corporate of all the rest, change that from our color, all of those types of things. So yeah, I think that’s what they lean into. I like that. All right, so just to recap, order brand archetypes and how to use them effectively. Number one, archetypes emerge from a sound understanding of the brand, not the other way around. You cannot just slap an archetype on top of a brand and call it a day. Number two, most brands have more than one archetype just like people brands are not one dimensional. When it comes to their personalities, we may use one for simplicity sake, but know that having shades of others is important. Number three, align on how archetypes will be used in your organization. Sometimes there’s lots of education and immersion other times it’s high level and there’s everything in between all of them are okay. And number four invest in creating tools that will bring them to life. An archetype on a page will never become an active part. Have a brand’s experience. And with that we will say go and exercise your Marketing Smarts! Still need help in growing your marketing smarts? Contact us through our website, ForthRight-People.com. We can help you become a savvier marketer through coaching or training you and your team or doing the work on your behalf. Please also help us grow the podcast by rating and reviewing on your player of choice and sharing with at least one person. Now, go show off your Marketing Smarts!