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Classics: 4 Ways to Leave a Legacy in Your Career: Show Notes & Transcript

Post | Jan 30, 2024

Welcome back to Marketing Smarts! From brand-building and marketing veterans Anne Candido and April Martini (that’s us) comes a podcast committed to cutting through all the confusing marketing BS so you can actually understand how to take action and change your business today. We deep-dive into topics most would gloss-over, infusing real-world examples from our combined 35+ years of corporate and agency experience. We tell it how it is so whether you are just starting out or have been in business awhile, you have the Marketing Smarts to immediately impact your business.

In this episode, we’re talking how to leave a legacy in your career. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review if you’re exercising your Marketing Smarts!

  • Episode Summary & Player
  • Show Notes
  • Marketing Smarts Summary
  • Transcript

Marketing Smarts: Classics: 4 Ways to Leave a Legacy in Your Career

How do you want to be remembered in your career? Let’s assume it’s a positive legacy you want to leave – there are a TON of ways to leave your mark. Many of these you can start doing right now, no matter your role or level of experience. In this episode, you’ll learn how to take the time to mentor, set the new standard, create culture, and intentionally plan your succession. You’ll also find the truth behind your legacy at your previous place of employment, how to work on your legacy despite the expectation of your day-to-day work, and the best way to build your legacy over time. This episode covers everything from mentoring to company culture. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

  • How do you leave a legacy in your career?
  • Why should you take the time to mentor?
  • How do you know if you’ve left a legacy at your previous places of employment?
  • What’s involved with setting the new standard?
  • How can you leave a legacy when you’re expected to just do your job?
  • What makes a great company culture?
  • How do you continue to build on your legacy over time when you have the day-to-day of your job and just life in general?
  • What does Pure Barre have to do with Harley-Davidson?

And as always, if you need help in building your Marketing Smarts, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at:

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:

Show Notes

What is Marketing Smarts?

From brand-building and marketing veterans Anne Candido and April Martini comes a podcast committed to cutting through all the confusing marketing BS so you can actually understand how to take action and change your business today. They deep-dive into topics most would gloss-over, infusing real-world examples from their combined 35+ years of corporate and agency experience. They tell it how it is so whether you are just starting out or have been in business awhile, you have the Marketing Smarts to immediately impact your business.

How do I exercise my Marketing Smarts?

Thanks for listening to Marketing Smarts. Get in touch here to become a savvier marketer. 


Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

Anne Candido 0:02
This is Marketing Smarts – a podcast committed to helping you become a savvier marketing leader, no matter your level. In each episode, we will dive into a relevant topic or challenge that marketing leaders are currently facing. We will also give you practical tools and applications that will help you put what you learn into practice today. And if you miss anything, don’t worry, we put worksheets on our website that summarize the key points. Now, let’s get to it.

April Martini 0:29
Welcome to Marketing Smarts.

Anne Candido 0:31
I am Anne Candido.

April Martini 0:32
And I am April martini and today is another Marketing Smarts Classics: 4 ways to leave a legacy in your career. As we start another new year, we often contemplate life’s bigger picture and what it all means to be here. One of the topics that often comes up as part of this is the legacy we want to leave in life. I know for me, the older I get, and quite frankly, the older my kids get. This is a big topic that is at the forefront of my mind. And as I make plans for all I want to achieve, and 2024 my legacy is a big part of that vision. So we thought we’d bring this one back for all of you as a good reminder of how to think through your legacy. Let’s get to it.

Anne Candido 1:07
Now this is generally a conversation happens a bit later in our careers where we start to think about wonder, hey, well anyone actually miss us when we’re a company. And he can tend to be a little bit anti climatic when we think about all the blood sweat and tears you put into a career just to think that eventually, when we are gone, we’re going to be replaced in life is gonna go on there rang true. So it definitely creates a craving, it’ll leave a mark to somehow imprint something from us that we can say with certainty that we actually had an impact we actually were there.

April Martini 1:37
Yes. And I often think about this is what do you want to be remembered for? Which goes to a slightly dark place in my head on what would you want on your tombstone? But you get the idea where I’m going

Anne Candido 1:48
to somewhat be big enough. Well, that’s not

April Martini 1:52
exactly short winded. But But beyond your family and close friends, what mark are you leaving on this world for the better as how I try to frame it up in my mind? Right, right,

Anne Candido 2:03
right. So this episode is focus on what you can do to create a lasting impact that will be remembered after you’ve left and are on to the next phase of your life. And we’re going to assume that you actually want to create a powerfully positive like, some people just don’t care. And we’re going to assume that you want something more than just like a plaque on the wall commemorating some sort of achievement, right? Yes, yes. All of that. Although a pat on the walls, kind of nice to

April Martini 2:26
meet ya. Yeah, didn’t get it might not right.

Anne Candido 2:29
Okay. So the first part about leaving a legacy is to take the time to teach coach and mentor. When we hear stories of people recounting impactful moments in their careers, they almost always include someone who made a difference in their journey. So these are jelly moments of authentic transparency and wisdom from experience that come from like a very genuine desire to help the person be the best they can be. Now, these are just like your run of the mill, like everyday conversations. These are usually above and beyond and a little bit unexpected, right? So I was just listening to Guy Raz’s Wisdom from the Top podcast, which is very, very good for anybody looking for something new to add to their podcast library. And he was interviewing Melinda Gates, and this is the first time I’ve actually ever heard her speak. I’ve not heard her. Yeah, not the front person, right. So she was telling a story. And she was recounting a mentor and a hiring manager from her time at IBM, where she worked when she was in college. And then she was now looking for a full time job. And they were very interested in recruiting her into a full time job at IBM. So the hiring manager, like I said, who also was her mentor? Asked her says, Hey, are you going to accept this job? And she said, Well, I’ve kind of done all my interviewing on this side. And you know, I’m pretty certain on the next step, I need to go to one more place before I actually accept this job. And she’s like, Well, do you mind if I ask where and Melinda goes, is him this little startup called Microsoft? Startup at the time, right? Yeah. The her mentor said, Hey, can I give you a piece of advice? And I was like, of course, sure. She says, if you get an offer there, you have to take it. And this was what’s so shocking to her because she’s like, this is a person who was actively recruiting me into IBM. And she was the one who actually was putting my needs my career growth, my interests above the need of the company. Amazing. And when Melinda asked like, Well, why would you say that she goes, Well, you’re incredibly talented. You’re a woman, you’re young. This has, like Microsoft has is going to have like, monumental growth. If everything goes as expected. At IBM, you’re gonna have to continue to prove yourself along the way. Not saying that you won’t get there. But you’ll get here a lot faster at the startup. And, of course, the rest is history. Right?

April Martini 4:43
And amazing that she reflects back on that moment, you know, given all the success and it just shows how much of an impact you can have to the point of legacy when you’re teaching and coaching and mentoring others and how that leaves its mark.

Anne Candido 4:56
Yeah, absolutely. And when you make an emotional impact like that, not only does this So the person is starting to imprint way of behaving and being that the person begins to recognize as truth. And that’s really important because you’re that’s what the that legacy comes from is that when you take the time to coach, mentor and teach people start seeing the way that they want to behave the same way that they want to be. And they started to practice that when they bring on their mentees, their coaches when they take the time to teach. So it lives on, frankly, how culture has developed. Yeah,

April Martini 5:27
absolutely. Well, and I, I’ve already said, I love this point, I love this one. But this is really fundamental to how I think about my own legacy. So like with Melinda Gates, and hopefully most of us have people that did this for us along the way. And those were pivotal moments, like you said, and that then framed, how we were going to or not to create examples how we were not going to coach and mentor others. But I really think that point about framing the behavior or being the impetus for the behavior, or helping people mirror what it can look like, is so important, because when you’re in the early end of your career, it is hard to navigate these types of things. So I think when we think about legacy, one of the lowest hanging fruit, quote unquote, things is to do the coaching and mentoring and teaching but I think it is one of the places that’s undervalued until you start to hear things like this. So for me, it’s about really thinking past my own personal agenda, how can I assist this person in making their life better? And what will they remember about that experience, and I had two things just hit me in the face recently, which happens, I feel like when we do these episodes a lot of times but the first was I reconnected with someone that I haven’t had a conversation with in 20 years almost. And she was saying that someone that worked for her that I haven’t talked to in several years was consistently singing my praises when people would say Who was your best mentor, and I hadn’t heard I mean, like I said, we it’s been man seven or eight years, since I connected with her. She’s been gone from that company for a couple. But she was like, your name would always come up naturally in those contexts, right. So to me, I’m like, that is part of what I want my legacy to be. I can see it happening. On the other side of that I was just on a flight the other day and happened to sit next to someone that I worked with a long time ago. And I was sort of doing I felt like an impromptu coaching session with shopping sometimes with him. And I said something and he said, Oh, that’s That’s right. I need to write that down. Right. And so I think that it’s not always the shiniest thing. But when you start to put those things together, you can see that legacy that you can weave that’s actually highly, highly impactful and emotional and promote change and culture, like you said, in a really big way. Yeah, and you may not know, right, and I didn’t you know, yeah, exactly. Because we

Anne Candido 7:53
kind of do, yes. Awesome to reinforce Yes. Some of the negativity on kind of blind faith. Yes, exactly.

April Martini 7:59
That’s a better way said yes. Yeah. Alright,

Anne Candido 8:01
so the next point, I had to leave a legacy in your career at any level is to set the new standard. So the people who leave a legacy don’t just see what they do as a transactional job, if that’s the way this you see the way that you go to work. And the way that you show up at work, you’re not going to leave a legacy. They see work their job, their career as an opportunity to really play. So they kind of see it like a sandbox, and they see it as always kinds of new opportunities that they could kind of come in, and actually push the status quo and create new products and features and services and processes and tools, all these things that can really improve the way the company does work and does really good quality work. I mean, this is the growth mindset we hear so often, frequently, right? And these days, once they start to taking hold, these are the new way people do work, right? So you’re setting a new standard when you do that. Now the place where I saw legacy being established a lot, and most frequently at p&g was in products research. So that’s centered in r&d, and product research was the group that would go out and talk to consumers. And their whole job was to pull in insights in order to set the criteria design criteria for new products, new advertising, all of those sorts of things. So there’s no right way to source consumer input. In fact, there’s a gazillion different ways and everybody had their own perspective with its quantitative or qualitative or focus groups or one on ones, whatever it was. But the people that were actually showing up as leaving a legacy were the people who were really paying attention to what was the most effective and really honing those techniques in order to build a new standard. So when they started becoming successful at those people started wanting them to train them on them. They wanted to learn how to do these techniques, they started to become more adopted across the company. And those people became thought leaders is in product research, right. And so this is the way that you need to start thinking about how you’re gonna set a new standard. And it doesn’t have to be something at necessarily like, the highest highest level, it can be something that’s like in where you’re at. And so it can happen at any time. Now, I’ll say, you have to be prepared, because a new standard isn’t always easy, right? It’s easy to kind of go where the ship is going. And so you have to be prepared for a little bit of pressure, treacherous conditions, whether it’s gaining support, whether it’s acquiring new budget, whether it’s dealing with the doubters, because you are going to be going and you’re gonna be really challenging the status quo. And you’re gonna try to bring in some new belief systems with people that people might not be prepared for, or you run into, we’ve been doing it like this for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, or we did that 20 years ago, and it didn’t work well, okay, like two decades ago, it’s a little bit of a different world. So the point here is that you can’t just go in and do your job and leave a legacy, you really need to think about how you’re going to go above and beyond the status quo and make an imprint. Yeah,

April Martini 11:05
I think that’s a really good point. And I will just reinforce the point that it can be a bit of a lonely road, at times, and you’ve heard and say that it can be a challenging road. When I think about this, I think about the fact that you also can’t charge too hard into it. So while it is about going above and beyond your daily job, and sitting in the status quo is 1,000% never gonna get you there. You also have to make sure you’re taking the time and doing it with some patience so that you can bring other people along, and I’ve talked about this before on the show, but I pushed boundaries hard early in my career. I mean, I got the nickname of being a hard charger by one of my early bosses little miscellany. Yes, exactly. It’s little, so I thought it was little redundant. Yeah, that actually, that is your right. Little Mussolini. But mini mute. So anyway, I could go down that whole path. But in any case, the point here is that I was doing it with positive intent, because I saw a better way, and I couldn’t unsee the better way. And I just wanted to go do the better way. But the truth of the matter was, was that to Anne’s point about we’ve been doing it this way, a long time, or, you know, you’re young little whippersnapper that just got here, how could you possibly know better? You know, there’s all kinds of reasons that you run into roadblocks. And I think when I think now in terms of leaving a legacy, it really is about figuring out a way to leave something better than when you got there. And sometimes you just have to realize that there’s going to be shades and degrees of that. But building a legacy means you build it over time. And so that’s always kind of become my motto and really stayed. My motto when Anne and I even select clients now is can we make it better than it currently is? If so, then we should go ahead and do that. We also talk all the time about how we’re on a lifelong journey to learn and achieve more. And I think that this is the way we weave that into our legacy. It’s like, it’s not that we’re stagnating and looking at everybody else and saying, Well, you could do this better, it’s that we are doing better, and byproduct of that trying to bring others along as part of our legacy.

Anne Candido 13:14
That’s a really, really good point. I really liked that point, especially about the hard charging, because that’s definitely definitely not necessarily coming from a bad place. No, no place a passion, but you have to have some style when you go about it and be aware and be able to leave the room and understand how to bring people along with you. Because you can’t leave nobody’s following

April Martini 13:31
little finesse goes a long way. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Anne Candido 13:35
All right. The third point about leaving a legacy in your career at any level is to create culture. And I’m gonna get this one to April,

April Martini 13:41
yes, yes, I love the culture, any any sort of Brand Character culture, I’m your gal. And you said this a little bit earlier on, and about how, when we’re leaving a legacy, it really does help form culture. And I think that, obviously, that’s what this point is called. But what we would say here is that it’s especially important if you are a leader, but you can do this at any level. So I made the point before about making things better, leaving an impact and having to grow your legacy, just because you’re not the leader, the owner, the CEO, et cetera, you still have the power to do this. And when we think about this point, we think about those people that we’ve all had in our careers where you talk about them, and you’re like, their personality is just so infectious. When I’m with them, I can’t help but being positive, right, or whatever that is, whatever that thing is that you glom on to that other people glom on to and they want to follow that person down whatever particular path. The thing that I would say about this, though, is, and this was a misconception when I was younger is those people don’t just happen to be that like in some in some ways, right? But this is where your personal brand really comes into play. So you have to always be actively working within and managing your personal brand, so that you know one who you want to be But then subsequently how you want to show up, and then how you want people to feel as a result. And then how do you want them to be as a result of that, what I’ve learned over the years is those people were great because they were consistent. And they were active in their personal brand at all times. And they were managing the situation around them not from a manipulative way. But they saw the way they wanted it to be, or they saw the legacy they wanted to leave. And so then they were acting in accordance with that. So this is really specifically your behaviors and your actions, I just said, consistency, your actions are the choices you make in your engagements with others, as well as when you think about the business as a whole. And we recently had the former CMO of Chick-fil-A on the show, oh, man, what’s happened a couple months ago now maybe. And he talked a lot about the culture there and S. Truett Cathy, who was the founder establish what he calls Christian values, and Chick-fil-A, and whether you’re religious or not, it really doesn’t matter to this point, what we interpret this as is really just being a good human. So we would encourage you that Steve Robinson go back and listen to that episode. But even to this day, Chick-fil-A still upholds those ideals. So a second generation takes over folks like Steve, after 30 years are now gone. They continue to live into that. And they keep it pretty simple. Honestly, it’s about being a good person, like we said, but the culture of the organization lives into that just as much as the experience they provide to the customer and all the way through, and they’re constantly using that as a lens. Now, this is a really big scale example, we get that we think it’s one that’s easily intuitive when you think about it, and we’ve all experienced it. So therefore, one that really shows you how, when you create the culture through the lens of the legacy that you believe, as whatever role you’re playing in the organization, that’s how you can start to help the culture take hold in a very intentional way. Yeah, I

Anne Candido 17:00
think that is a really good example. And I just want to emphasize the point that is about your behaviors and actions and how you show up. And that is a really, really important part to think about. Because, you know, the old adage is true, right? It’s like people will remember necessarily what you do, but they remember how you make them feel. And this is a really, really important point to remember if you want to leave a legacy. And like I said, we expect you guys want to leave a positive legacy. Yes, yes. So I don’t want you to be the worst person they ever worked with. But one of the best people that you want to help people rise to the occasion, you want to help people be better around you, you want to help people accomplish more as a result of you and your presence. So think about what your personal brand is doing on behalf of that mission. And that goal, if legacy is what you want to lead, and see how your behaviors and actions may or may not be actually conducive to achieving that goal. And I think is, is something that becomes a very much a vulnerable place to be sometime sure does that it does create a huge, huge transition, and transformation in the way people are going to interact with you and the influence you have on people. So really, really think about that point. I think that’s a really excellent point. And then that becomes infectious. And that’s where the culture is created. Right?

April Martini 18:17
Yep. Yep, that grows from there.

Anne Candido 18:18
All right. The fourth point about leaving a legacy in your career at any level is intentionally planning your succession. April, I’m gonna take this one. And this

April Martini 18:26
is the one nobody ever wants to talk about, because they don’t want to have to think about actually leaving. It all sounds good until it becomes reality, just like a lot of things. But again, this is not just for CEOs and executives, this is really for anyone, no matter your level. Many people believe succession planning is part of a process that’s done around them. But in actuality, you can have a big influence on who takes over when you leave. This holds true even if you’re just leaving one role within the company and going to another How are you leaving things? And how do you want them to be left and who to essentially. So what we mean by this is recruit with intention. So make sure that you’re carefully cultivating your team such that you can pull a lot of like minded, though diverse talent, and look at those people and then think about who’s ready to step in when you step out. So that’s the intentionality that we’re talking about there. Pull people up with you. We talk about this a lot on various topics. Make sure that as you climb the ladder, your successors are coming along with you and then you’re backfilling underneath them, right. So the like mindedness, that’s what we’re talking about it becomes, it starts to permeate through all levels if you do it right. And make sure when you’re doing this, that the people that you’re pulling up are getting the exposure they need to the right people at the right time, so it makes sense, not just to you while you’re putting them forth. nominator provide a list of successors to the hiring manager, give your reco who you for who you think the best person is to take your role and then leave a plan for them. If you can help with that transition plan even better especially if you know this person intimately, you’re able to help use the skills that they have to then set them up for success in that transition plan. And then offer to be part of the recruiting process or provide the criteria, if you don’t believe that the people exist within house or you know, or haven’t been your successors along the way, on what makes a qualified candidate. Now, nothing guarantees that your legacy is going to be maintained, or that all parts of this are going to happen the way you want them to. But if you do this work, I’ve seen this work well, where it’s a lot, it’s outside of the norm of most people’s quote, unquote, day job of what they’re managing, even if they’re in HR or, you know, whatever their role is, it’s added work for them, especially if it’s going to be done right with intention. So I think by putting any of this in place, you have a better chance of having your legacy take hold, and some of it being moved forward, it might not play out exactly like you thought, but you can implement it. Yeah, I

Anne Candido 20:59
think those are really, really good points. And I think a lot of people miss this, unless they think that they are the hiring manager. And so I’ll tell you, before I was actually a manager, others, what I would tend to do was we had to have a new person come into the team or for our hiring externally, I would be like, I’m just gonna jot down a few points of who I think would be really good for this role. And I gave it to my boss, I’m like anything was the guy’s up, like, I know, you know, you’re kind of processing along, you’re thinking a lot about who could fit. I’m like, it stays you’re interested, I just put down a few points of what I thought would be the right qualifications for this person in this role, right? You can influence that at your own level now, like as April said, not guarantee that they’re going to listen, but you will always try to influence. Then as the hiring manager, there was two things that I always look for when I was hiring somebody and one is like, could they take my job eventually? Yeah, because if they couldn’t, and there’s just really no point. Although there are people who are at a lower level, do I see potential ever that they’d Yes. Get there? Get there? Yeah. And see, can they make me look good? Yep. Right. So those were the two qualifications are really highly, highly important to me. Because one thing, you got to remember that you don’t know everything. And so surrounding yourself with smart people who do is extremely, extremely helpful, even though you have to kind of swallow your ego a little bit to do that. But this is all about intentionally planning, your succession is about creating a team that one has the right culture, but then also, when you are going to move on, you have this like this established ecosystem that can carry on without you. And then you move that may take up to the next place you go. So I think that’s a really, really important point. Well, and

April Martini 22:37
the last thing I will say here is don’t let it not happen because you’re fearful. So this planning, sets up the next team for success and whatever, but it also allows you the peace of mind to be able to move out and not stay too long. I’ve seen that happen. And then you get to the point of diminishing returns. I’m actually going to make a sports analogy here and you’re going to die. But we recently watched Derek Jeter, there’s a whole series on his career. And the thing that struck me about him full transparency, I have a huge crush on him after that, and I already did anyway, but just in a different way. He’s like, just, they’re kind of opposites, right? Like Derek is polished and professionalism and suave, and like oozes charm. Shaq does those things in a more of a raw way, which I just find hysterical. So anyway, all that to say, but the thing that struck me and why it came into my head for this point is that Derrick exited his career at a point when sure he could have kept playing. But he was kind of going out on top. And I don’t mean that in like the Oh, you just won x amount on World Series, whatever. But it was like he knew it was his time. And he left with the grace of that, versus some of these players on various sports that you see. Kind of like hold on too tight. And then what you remember about them is what happened at the end, not all the great things that they did in between, and I saw this happen in a few different organizations that I worked in, where I was like, ah, if he had just gone like even two years earlier, it would have been a completely different exit. And I just think this is where grace and doing what you have to for yourself to be okay with leaving versus putting the stranglehold and holding on. It’s just so important to this point.

Anne Candido 24:20
Yeah. Choose your title your time choose you. Yes. And that’s at any level again, this is a Yeah, audit. I’m retiring. No, no, no, no, I I’ve been here too long. I’m no longer growing. And therefore I’m no longer helping my team to grow. Yeah, I’ve gotten everything I can out of this. It’s time for me to move on. But this is a safe place. It’s uh, yeah, I like it here. Yeah, those sorts of things, too. So I think it’s fear from multiple different places.

April Martini 24:43
Right? Well, you brought up Shaq. So I may as well emphasize the point here, like part of the reason I’m fascinated with that man has all post basketball career. It’s because of all the business acumen that he’s built and that he’s done it with intentionality and he’s built a completely separate career. Not to mention he’s hysterical. Like I said, But, you know, just it’s like he could have kept playing, kept playing, keep playing keep playing until he couldn’t walk anymore literally for the stress he was putting on his body. But he’s found other ways to move his legacy along and have actually, I would argue a much bigger impact on the world and people that are non NBA sports fans such as myself,

Anne Candido 25:18
I agree, I have to totally agree with you on that one. All right. So just to recap how to leave a legacy in your career at any level, take the time to teach coach and mentor. When we hear stories that people recounting impactful moments in their careers, they almost always include someone who made a difference in their journey. Number two, set a new standard, that people who leave a legacy don’t just see what they do as a transactional job, they see it as a sandbox, full of opportunity to build and create something now. Number three, create culture. This is especially important if you are a leader. But anyone can do this at any level just by being intentional with how you show up. And number four, intentionally plan your succession. This is not just for CEOs and execs, this is for everyone, no matter your level, you can have a big influence on who takes over after you leave. Alright, our next segment is in the trenches where we give world examples specific to industries and situations. But with broad application, so all of you guys can put them into action. Alright, are first in the trenches question? How do you feel you have left a legacy at your previous places of employment? And how are you doing so now, right, I’ll take a stab at this to begin with an April, I want you to jump into Sure. Alright, so I’ll start a png. So people understand and appreciate the value of PR to build brands, I believe because of the work that I did there. Now, when I started in PR now this is public relations different than what I was talking about before, which also was called PR, which is the consumer research part of the business is that PR was always kind of seen as more of like the other side of advertising, right, people didn’t really understand or really grasp the point of it, because we’re so focused on the straightforward advertising or developing TV spots. And then it became a little bit of social and digital there, but still PR kind of like always hung on the on the outside. So I had to work really, really hard to get that integrated into our holistic way that we do bracket branding and marketing by showing that when you generate PR when you generate people talking about your brand in different ways outside of just your straightforward advertising, which frankly, nobody talks about just the advertising outside of Superbowl, you generate brand love. And it’s a way of being able to create connections with your your consumers at a at a level that creates a lot of impact in the way that you make them feel. But you can only do that when you can put it in context of something that they care about something that’s culturally relevant is from somebody who’s culturally relevant or somebody they care about. And it can’t always be from the brand. And so when I was able to actually get them to understand the benefit of this RPR capability in our PR budgets and all that, the strategies that we were able to deploy became much, much bigger. And you can see this still in the way that P&G especially the Tide brand, and our fabricare brands, execute a lot of the PR that I started in programs like Tiger Woods, I hope. So that still is there. And that’s still in something that I set the new standard for. The way that that comes to life now is something that I made an impact on. The way that we do the NFL program that before was a still has a benefit focus message, but it has more culturally relevant NFL, those nuances and using the assets in the right way to really drive that emotional connection that brand love and a way that fans can appreciate where before, it was like a very big push message of just hey, dirty jerseys tie cleaner. Now, like even in the latest copy that I just saw, which was about cleaning your your fan jersey that you’ve had forever and ever. That has been done before in a very different way than how I had articulated it when I was still there. And so I see some of that still continue to live on because it did well, right. And so those things kind of take hold that becomes a new standard. And that becomes the way that people see how to use like sponsorships and partnerships and collaborations in order to build that brand up. So I feel like that is something that I left as a legacy a PNG that I could still continue to see in my little little world today. And I think also now now as forthright people, I see us building our legacy through actually this podcast, right. It’s something that we have built now a body of work, but the body of work reflects our point of view the body of work reflects the way that we have learned how to do marketing through a varied amount of experiences. That podcast could live on forever that it platform is going to host that podcast forever unless somehow the platform disappears. So we’ll still have all the files pop up, I’ll just keep putting it back out there, we’ll leave it in the will. Practice has gone down, uploaded again. So that’s one way that I think we’re really starting to cultivate still our legacy as part of birthright people. April, what do you think? Yeah,

April Martini 30:22
so I mentioned before that at every company, my motto of trying to leave it better than when I got here was what I started to live into once I got myself under control. And frankly, there were a couple of places where it didn’t go as well as I hoped. So I tried to just do it where I could. So when I wasn’t the leader, it was more of a one off mentorship of younger staff or propping people up where I could, or helping out when it wasn’t necessarily in my job description to try to cultivate that culture. But then also to the point of one of the points, which was about impacting behavior or influencing how people were going to do things moving forward, that was always one of my goals. And then once I became a leader, toward the end of my career, I felt like hell for the right people to have a voice, even if they weren’t in the room. And I didn’t take other people’s credit. And then eventually, I got to start an entire department, which I treated like it was my very own right. And so you can see in the way I’m talking about it, how it built with intentionality. And I think not getting distracted in the places where it wasn’t having as much impact as I thought it should, also really helped me to think more objectively about what I wanted my legacy to be, which you hear me say is very much in the helping other people, propping people up coaching, mentoring, teaching, allowing people to learn from my experiences and be better for it alongside me and then bringing those people along. And when I started my own thing, that was a huge objective. And it was about everything from fixing fractured relationships between clients and agencies, to utilizing freelancers and other experts with the respect that they deserved all of the time, to helping people that wanted to start their own gigs start their own gig. And now it’s a huge part of who we are at forthright people and why we’ve expanded the model to coach train and do, quite frankly, if you gave me my choice, I’d live in the coach and train all day because I believe that’s where I can have the most influence and the part of the business that I love. I also echo the point about the podcast, when I listen back, and think about how many episodes we’ve done and how much work we’ve put into this. I’m just super proud of what we’ve been able to achieve. But also when I think about the fact that my kids and grandkids will have that. I mean, we haven’t talked a lot about the personal side of things, but being able to actually hear me speak. I mean, I hear them repeat phrases when they listened back on Sunday episodes of me, which is hysterical now. But I think your point is right about how we’re leaving that body of work. And then forthright women you didn’t touch on but we you know, we have that as well, where we built this podcast to bring marketing to the masses kind of pull back the bullshit meter and show people what it really is meant to include and what it isn’t in a lot of cases and make the business world a better place for it. With forthright women, we’re trying to intentionally do what we do with a lot of our one on one coaching engagements or with our training engagements, and really focusing on women and allowing them to help live into the potential without all the noise that often surrounds the rise. And so long answer, but past and now and even future, I think a little bit I think our legacy, like I said before, at the beginning, we’re all about learning and growing until we’re trying to do that for ourselves, but also push ourselves to do better and be better and make our legacy grow and to the masses.

Anne Candido 33:59
Yeah, I love that. I’m glad you mentioned ForthRight Women. All right, our second in the trenches question you mentioned, you can leave a legacy at any level, but I feel like all people expect me to do as my job. How can I leave a legacy? Fair enough? Yes, and this is a tough one, when we said it’s not always easy, right? To leave a legacy you have to push again, some things are gonna push against you. This is gonna probably be one of them. But here’s where you heard us say you can set a new standard for how you do your job. And you can do that no matter what job you’re doing, you can always find a different way of doing it better, doing a higher quality job setting a new standard in that way, even if it’s very process oriented. But just to take it back to the example I was using before when I was talking about products research, the other PR when I was giving all the examples of how people were creating legacy there. Those weren’t just managers or leaders or people have been in the company for 20 years. These were new folks to the function. These were new folks to p&g I think sometimes we have estimate the power of fresh thinking, especially if you’re young or you’re new coming in. Now, as April said, I mean, don’t come in with guns blazing, want to change everything in your first 30 days, you have to have some respect for coming in and learning and in understanding what the culture is understanding where everybody’s ad, reading the room, all those important things that allow you to enable change. But you should think about, well, what’s my new spin on this? Well, what can I offer? What’s my previous experiences? Give me that maybe they don’t quite see. Or because I have a new outside from the actual like core view, what does that bring? Like? What can I offer? That is my new fresh perspective in that way. So that’s one is to set a new standard Are you do your job no matter what, and that goes back to one of our original points. But also like established culture, by the way you show up in like April said, again, I’m always struck by how much you can change the way that people do work, just by the way that you show up in that work. So that is not to be underestimated. I’ll give you an example here is we were doing some interviews for a client and I was talking to one of these people, and she was on the very front lines, right, very front lines doing this work. And she had a teammate who had some back issues, and the teammate had been asking for a while to get a stand up desk. And they were she was having trouble getting it approved. And you know, just a little bit of React cracy through corporations, that’s nothing new and definitely not not expected. But it was taken some time. And she was kind of in pain. And so her this person saw her and said, I had the means I’m going to buy you this desk, okay, and so she just bought her the desk, and the person was so thankful and so grateful, because she couldn’t afford the desk, she couldn’t afford it, buy it on her own, but she’s like, I have the money, I’m just gonna buy you this desk. So you can do the job that you need to do and you can contribute at your biggest level. And so those sorts of things. People remember, you also hope when people have those things, or experienced those things, are those things happen to them? They then pay it forward. Yeah. Right. So again, it’s the way that you create culture. So way that you create an atmosphere, an environment that’s conducive to the type of place that becomes like a thriving place that people want to come and work at and stay at, right.

April Martini 37:20
I agree with all of that. And I would just add back the point of controlling what you can within your role. Yeah, that’s really good point. And so I think those little impacts that build to something greater are so important. And so I think just to put a finer point, on some examples of what Anne said, I was thinking of just some anecdotes of where I was able to have an impact that helped me clarify my legacy overall. So for example, one of the agencies I worked at was uptight. And I’d say that in air quotes from an agency perspective. And so the tensions were always really high. And so I made it my point to always bring levity to situations. And that’s really where my whole statement about we’re not saving lives here was born out of that experience, or put the punctuation point on that. But it helped to calm people down. And then others started to mirror that behavior and understand it was okay. And then more people wanted me on their team. And then people sought me out to go on pitches and things like that. So it didn’t fundamentally change everything about that organization. But it made an impact with very little effort on my part. So you can still do your day to day and add these little things in that have maybe more impact sometimes in arguably, your actual job can from a legacy perspective. Another one I know work from home and work remotes huge now. But in one of my jobs, it was not and it was not okay. And I went in and fought for working Fridays from home because I was traveling to the office. And then I was traveling all over the place. And there was a lot of skepticism. And there was a lot of pushback. And the first couple times I did it, it was kind of disastrous because they felt like people were trying to catch me in something right. But sticking with it and doing it over time that allowed them to see that performance wasn’t reflective of actually having to sit in your chair. And so that change that for future people in the organization. And then finally, I will say one of the best environment I worked at and one of the agencies, we had a lot of fun together and it was encouraged that you go out and explore even spend two hours outside of your desk and go work somewhere else, but no one would ever do it. And so I started making it a point to stretch the limit on what that meant in working half day, not in the office and being completely unavailable. And at first people were like, I’m you’re doing what? But then over time, people were like, Oh, well, that’s a top performer and well respected person in the organization. I can follow suit of that, right. Like I might not be able to do it to that level right off the bat. But we started to see more people and then the work got better and people weren’t happier. And we weren’t spending 40, 50, 60 hours together in the same space because we felt like the culture mandated that. So as I was going through and thinking about what you were saying, and then also my response to this giving some tactical things of just where it doesn’t have to be fundamentally changing everything about the place, and you can still do it within the confines of your job. And you’ll probably also be happier because you feel like you have some control over what your role is in the broader organization. Yeah, like that. I

Anne Candido 40:27
can sum that up to being the example right? Yes. Yeah. I love that. Yep. All right, our third in the trenches. Question, how do you continue to build on your legacy over time when you have the day to day of your job and just life in general? It is Monday, April.

April Martini 40:40
Yeah. And I kind of I kind of preempted this this a little bit, but I think I’m just gonna, like put some points out there for this one. So

we’ve talked about this, we talked about how Anna and I are always educating ourselves and reaching further, really, candidly, you know, my husband, sometimes here’s the stuff I’m listening to. And he’s like, I don’t even understand what you’re getting out of this. I’ve left it in my brain so far ago, right. And then there are things that sometimes I get into, and I’m like, too much too dense, you know, but the point is that I’m pushing, right, I’m constantly pushing, and maybe someday I’ll be able to get to that one that today is a struggle. The second thing is seek out perspectives that are not your own. We haven’t talked about this a lot on the episode. But for me partnering with an let my career take another huge leap and my legacy as well, because I had someone that agreed with me on the need to leave a legacy, but was able to push me on what that meant for me. And it doesn’t have to be a business partner. It can just be other people around you, especially if you’re trying to identify what you do well, or what you provide. That’s kind of the natural, quote unquote, thing within your personal brand that you could own, you’re going to ask other people, be clear on who you are, and manage your personal brand, pretty straightforward, do small things to recalibrate. We talk about this often, too, if things are feeling a little off, even if it’s like, usually I’m at like a 90%. And this week, I’ve been at a 60%. What’s going on? And why and does it have something to do with not feeling totally fulfilled? Practice on a daily basis, not here. And there, we talk all the time about how the things that are really important to us, we focus every single day on in increments. But it’s not like, Oh, I haven’t done that for a month. Now I need to go take care of that. It’s a consistency thing. And then ask other people what they think when you go and do things, too. So make sure that the feedback loop is consistently there. If you change something with intention, get feedback from other people.

Anne Candido 42:25
Yeah, those are all really good. I think the feedback one is a very important one that people tend to not want. They’re scared. Yeah. Because they’re afraid of what people are gonna say, right. But that is like the most important way to fine tune your legacy is to really understand how you’re showing up it goes to the personal brand piece we talked about it goes to whether or not you’re being received well, as a coach, trainer or mentor it, it goes to so many different culture. If you’re not getting feedback, then you’re really not intentionally building your legacy. Yep. All right. Our third and final segment is a brand that is either exercising their marketing smarts or not exercising their marketing smarts. And we call these marketing smart moments. Right? And they may or may not have anything to do with the episode and this one I Well,

April Martini 43:09
it could. You’re gonna You always say that and then you always find a way to tie it back. It’s like you’re kind of like a challenge. Yes, yes. Okay.

Anne Candido 43:17
So this one came across my social feed, and this was Pure Barre, which is part of the barre craze. If you guys I’m not exactly sure if they’re across the country, or they’re just in the local area to trend though. Yeah, it’s a bar bar being like the bar workouts right? Yeah. So pure bar, they had a pop up at the Harley Davidson grand opening. And it was an outdoor yoga event.

April Martini 43:39
Oh, my. Can you see? No, I think, Wow. I mean, I applaud you for trying to bring some new demographics in but the picture in my head right now is not lining up. Yeah, I

Anne Candido 43:51
was like, what I mean, really, I’m like, okay, um, so this one, I think I will tell you the lesson and then I’ll get into the why is like, I think you need to know your customer. You need to know your audience. I do yoga weekly. I cannot imagine going on the lawn at a Harley-Davidson with all those like Harley-Davidson. Style, not to be stereotypical. But there is a demographic, right. It’s a culture. It’s a big part of that Harley-Davidson culture is a thing and people feel very proud to be part of that. Right? Well,

April Martini 44:23
just the gear that they wear is not conducive to yoga. Do you can you imagine doing

Anne Candido 44:27
yoga is there like kind of walking in and out off their bikes? Look, I’m like, What the hell are those

April Martini 44:30
people doing? Well, yeah. And if they were gonna participate, I mean, they’re wearing clunky boots and leather vests and then they’re not the

Anne Candido 44:36
ones participating. That’s like the really funny thing. I mean, they can’t be I mean, I just know. All right, so Okay, so I went back and I kind of look to see if this was a thing that they were doing and I did find that they had done others pop ups like they did want to Greenworks which is a local brewery I think is a brewery and brew pub, but here and they had a kind of a recap of it and there was like 14 people showed up to that. Ouch. But again, I don’t go to a bar to go do yoga. And unless I go, sure I want to be doing yoga out on the patio. Everybody’s sitting around drinking their beer

April Martini 45:10
and watching me know, weird. It’s so weird. So awkward. I don’t understand.

Anne Candido 45:15
So I want to go see if they had a recap after the Harley-Davidson one. Nothing. exactly sure how successful that was, or how many people ended up showing up. But I was dying to see what those pictures look like, what did they see the pictures of all the guys on the bikes watching all these like women doing yoga? Okay, so I say that, again, I’ll close with my moral of the story, which is, I applaud that they’re trying to be a little bit disruptive. I applaud that they’re trying to kind of create some interest to do something interesting. But there is an element of things that disconnect. When we said well, your opinion, your brand love vehicles, you need to make sure you’re very clear about your communication channel, like how are you going to reach your consumer, very clear about your message, write about what you want to communicate. Any guy be very, very clear about your storyteller. Right? I would say all three of those are off here. 100% Yeah, so to me, it’s not a big surprise if this isn’t working. But if it’s part of a test to learn, great, we applaud test to learn, go test and learn. My guess is I would not invest much more into doing these kinds of pop ups. No,

April Martini 46:17
yeah. uncomfortable for the people there for the regular what beers or bikes uncomfortable for the people that are pure bar enthusiast. Can you also imagine

Anne Candido 46:27
that they’re trying to you know the kind of music they play? Yeah. And and all you hear is Harley engines coming in? Yeah, I don’t understand. Alright, so just to recap how to leave a legacy in your career at any level. Take the time to teach coach and mentor. When we hear stories of people recounting impactful moments in their careers, they almost always include someone who made a difference in their journey. Second, set a new standard that people who leave a legacy don’t just see what they do as a transactional job. They see it as a sandbox full of opportunity to build and create something new. Third, create culture. This is especially important if you’re a leader, but anyone can do this at any level just by being intentional with how you show up. And finally, intentionally plan your succession is not just for CEOs and execs, this is for everyone, no matter your level. They have a very big influence on who takes over after you lead with that will say go into exercise your Marketing Smarts!

April Martini 47:12
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