How Marketing & Branding Boosts PE-Backed Firms with Marc Rust, Consequently Creative: Show Notes & Transcript

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

In this episode of Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business, we’re talking marketing and branding for PE-backed firms with Marc Rust. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review!

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Strategic Counsel: How Marketing & Branding Boosts PE-Backed Firms with Marc Rust, Consequently Creative

Historically, many PE-backed firms don’t take marketing & branding seriously. They think building a brand is irrelevant and takes too long, especially for the aggressive timelines often found in private equity. What if we told you building a brand and then marketing that brand can actually work as a shortcut to the results you want AND increase your valuation? We wanted you to learn from an expert with a ton of experience here, so we welcomed on Marc Rust. He’s the Managing Director of Consequently Creative (CQC), who helps private equity increase portfolio company valuations & navigate change with brand momentum. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

• PSA for companies being sold
• From discomfort to defense innovation
• Culture as part of valuation
• Why people matter more than product features
• Identifying the Right PE Partners

And as always, if you need Strategic Counsel, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at: ForthRight-People.com.

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:

Show Notes

• How Marketing & Branding Boosts PE-Backed Firms with Marc Rust, Consequently Creative
  • [0:00] Welcome to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business
  • [0:29] Introduction: Marketing and Branding for PE-Backed Firms
  • [1:52] Meet Marc Rust – Founder of Consequently Creative
  • [3:43] Why Branding is Not a “Nice to Have” – It’s the Operating System
  • [5:38] How Branding Increases Valuation in Private Equity
  • [8:01] Applying Branding to PE Portfolio Companies
  • [10:06] The Ceramics Company Changing the World
  • [13:26] Getting Buy-In from Skeptics
  • [14:28] The Drone Company: From Discomfort to Defense Innovation
  • [18:45] Beyond the “Better Mousetrap” Mentality
  • [22:22] Culture as Part of Valuation
  • [26:02] Why Benches Make Coffee Taste Better
  • [28:22] Identifying the Right PE Partners
  • [30:15] Why People Matter More Than Product Features
  • [32:58] The Marketing Dance
  • [37:17] Getting Engineers to Talk to Engineers
  • [39:11] The Key to Sales Success
  • [42:00] Why People Are Now Critical to Valuation
  • [44:22] Managing the Shock of Being Bought
  • [47:17] Transparency in Transitions
  • [50:31] The Power of Great Company Culture
  • [52:19] PSA for Companies Being Sold
  • [54:43] American Business Culture: Money vs. People
  • [58:22] Legacy vs. Money: Being Honest About Your Exit Strategy
  • Quick-Fire Questions
  • [1:01:14] What Marc is Reading/Listening To
  • [1:02:08] If he could shadow anyone: Richard Branson
  • [1:03:05] Marc’s favorite way to unwind?
  • [1:04:06] Stop Being Boring and Do Something Different
  • Make sure to follow Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast spot and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts
  • Learn more at ForthRight-People.com and connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn

What is Strategic Counsel?

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

Thanks for listening Strategic Counsel. Get in touch here to become more strategic.

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:01

Welcome to the Strategic Council by Forthright Business podcast.  If you’re looking for honest, direct and unconventional conversations on how to successfully lead  and operate in business,  you are in the right place.  In our discussions, we push on the status quo and traditional modes of thinking  to reveal a fresh perspective.  This unlocks opportunity for you, your team  and your business. Now let’s get to it.

 

00:29

Welcome to the Strategic Counsel podcast. I am Anne Candido and I am April Martini. And today we’re going to talk about marketing and branding  yet again, but we’re going to filter this discussion for PE-backed firms. Now I’m going to be honest since I’ve talked to a lot of PE-backed firms and many just don’t take marketing and branding seriously. They just don’t see the value in it or they just don’t understand it.

 

00:54

And then instead they ultra focus on the product or service, believing that is where the key differentiator  resides and that will drive that coveted revenue that investors crave. Yes. So in other words, they think building a brand is irrelevant and takes way too long,  especially for the aggressive timelines, which are vying for a buyout or IPO as quickly as possible. But what if I told you that building a brand and then marketing that brand is actually a shortcut to these outcomes  and

 

01:23

it can actually increase your valuation. So hopefully we got you guys’ attention now. And we have brought on an additional expert for this conversation who has a lot of experience in this area, and that’s Marc Rust of Consequently Creative. Mark, do want to introduce yourself and give the listeners a bit of your story? Sure. Hello, and thanks for having me on. Yeah, I’m Marc Rust, and I started Consequently Creative about five years ago.

 

01:52

I guess we are a branding agency, although  I don’t really think of myself as a branding agency. We’re  more of a group of people who are absolutely passionate about how businesses work  and how things work in general. And we love  using the  magic powers of marketing, if you will, to help businesses grow  and  relate to their audiences in very, very thoughtful ways.

 

02:18

So they get  a response to what they’re doing. It’s no longer a one-way street type of communication  and they build on that and and the sky’s the limit really So that’s what we do and and  more recently  We’ve been specializing in private equity  and that means working with private equity firms and their portfolio companies to um Not only help them Be successful with their portfolio companies, but also help them

 

02:48

uh, have a good outcome and, and, and a better, better growth, better, better growth in areas that they were not aware of really. And I love how you say the marketing magic because it feels like that a lot. And that’s why I think a lot of folks don’t like, they try to shy away because I think there is something like just magical, but through this conversation you’re going to see and you’re going to, is they’re going to hear

 

03:15

that there is a lot of intentionality behind everything that is done. And yes, it works for PE back firms and their portfolios as well. So  Mark, let’s start with  just  going right at it because I know even in saying that a lot of people who are part of  PE back firms or working in their portfolio companies are still bristling. They’re like, okay, whatever you guys, don’t, we’ve been through this. It doesn’t work. It’s not important.

 

03:43

So maybe you can start with some success stories just to kind of warm the door as April likes to say. Yeah, sure. phrases.  Yeah, warm the door. I’m going start using that. I mean, let me start off by saying, first off, branding is not a nice to have. a lot of people. Thank you for saying that. And yeah, in P firms or in the business world or the old school world, it’s not a nice to have. What it is, is that it is the operating system.

 

04:13

for transformation. And by the way, all companies are always transforming.  So if that isn’t central to what you’re thinking about or what you’re doing, then you’re really missing out and it’s quite ridiculous. And  I say it’s quite ridiculous because sometimes you’ll go to these companies’ websites  and they have these headlines that just don’t mean anything. oh

 

04:38

Okay, I’m working with a company right now. I’m not going to say the name of the company because they might kill me, but I’m working with a company right now. You go to their website and it says brighter minds, brighter outcomes. I have no idea what that means. You know, and by the way, they’re not a preschool. I mean, maybe it’s good for a preschool, brighter minds, brighter outcomes. So you don’t know what they stand for. And it’s really important that companies start acknowledging that it is an easy differentiator to have better

 

05:08

messaging. It’s small little adjustments, but it’s the right adjustment, right? And it definitely isn’t something that should be automatic. It isn’t something you do easily. It’s not just a logo. It’s not okay to get a logo out on Fiverr or have your cousin build a logo for you and build a brand on that because that isn’t strong enough. So when it comes to private equity, what we try to show is that

 

05:38

branding can actually help you  reach your institutional goals. It can help you give that clear narrative that is gonna help you with your audience, help understand internally and externally who you serve, what the company does. Believe it or not, there’s a lot of times where  we meet with companies and we start a branding workshop and we’ll ask them, hey, so what do you do? And they can’t even answer that.

 

06:07

They probably can’t answer that because they haven’t been asked that question for a long, long time. And that’s a great indication that  marketing is not central to the decision-making. It’s not central to their definition of who they are and how they’re going to grow. So clarity is number one. um And that’s what  branding and messaging brings. And then after that, there’s that marketing,  that market position. Clarity provides power.

 

06:36

when it comes to how you want to position yourself in the market, right?  And it’s going to ultimately strengthen your competitive advantage. And then beyond that for private equity, it’s really about cultural alignment, making sure that everybody within a company, especially post acquisition, understand what’s going on, what are we doing and what’s the goal. And then you can accelerate on that. You can build on that. You can start doing what you want and really growing.

 

07:06

But ultimately the cost of not having branding on your plate is huge. It’s ridiculous. You’re leaving all this money on the table. We do judge a book by its cover. We do end up picking something and it’s always the same.  I mean, if you go to the grocery store and buy pasta, are you buying the better tasting pasta or are you buying the one that looks the best? Probably the one that looks the best.

 

07:36

That’s, mean, that’s a really foundational understanding of branding. And I think, I mean, you had me and April’s heads nodding the whole entire time you were talking. And I think a lot of still people would say, yeah, that’s great for all the other businesses out there, but PE by firms kind of see themselves as special, right? So maybe can you give us a few examples about how you’ve applied?

 

08:01

that philosophy and I love how you’re talking about the operating system for transformation because I think that is right on. Can you explain how you take in that operating system for transformation and imply this specifically to PE back firms in just a couple of success stories and then we’re going to break those success stories down. OK, sure.  And by the way, I apologize because I did not give you examples  with the previous question. OK, you got on your soapbox or your tideboxes, Ann would say. Oh, OK, great. So uh I guess in

 

08:31

In the PE world, what branding can do is it can ultimately increase the valuation of that company.  So let’s, let’s the definition of private equity, the old school definition is I’m going to buy a company, I’m going to trim the fat and I’m going to sell it. Right?  Um, the, is changing because that is resonating  less and less because of the environment that we’re in and because of the acceleration of information.

 

08:58

And also because of the generations that are coming into the workforce. Millennials and Gen Z are very, very different from Generation X. They’re not driven by money. They’re driven by  more than money in the sense that they want to identify with the company that they’re working with. In the case of private equity,  a lot of these older companies that are quite remarkable were purchased because they have value  on paper. Their value is on paper.

 

09:27

and they understand,  I can see that we could purchase it at this price, we could make these changes and we can sell it. We’re gonna try to sell it the highest price possible.

 

09:38

A lot of these companies don’t have the proper definitions  and uh triggers that are going to attract that new audience of buyers and workers that identify with companies on a different level. So what we do is that we go into a company and we say, hey, what do you stand for?  Oh, well, we make electronic components. No, but really, what do you stand for? What do you care about?

 

10:06

and we dig deeper and deeper. And then from those answers, we find values and we find common themes that we say, hey, you know what? You guys actually care about a better tomorrow.  And here’s how you define a better tomorrow. So I hope that helps.  there’s companies that, for example, we’re working with a portfolio company right now, which is a ceramics company. And this is not.

 

10:35

pottery ceramics, this is hardened ceramics.  And ah it’s a remarkable company, but this company actually is creating materials that are changing the world. They’re highly advanced  industrial technology engineers that have created some of the hardest materials known to man that have allowed us to explore space.

 

11:02

that  have allowed us to accelerate the growth of the world. mean, for example, you know, this company that I’m talking about builds one of the ceramic components that is a coupler that you use in oil rigs. Without that, you can’t have an oil rig. I mean,  there’s so many interesting things that you really don’t think of,  and people haven’t spent the time to tell the stories.

 

11:28

that make something valuable, that make something remarkable that you want to talk about, right? So if I start telling you, hey, yeah, it’s a ceramics company,  they make materials. Great. Not very interesting. But then if I say, hey, this is a company that is working on materials that are helping  several industries, defense, aerospace,  medical, et cetera, and they’re changing the way humans

 

11:58

are evolving because the components they make are so vital to our future. Well, that’s different. That feels cool. I want to work with that company. Do you know what I mean? So that’s important. But let’s keep in mind that that also increases the actual valuation of a company. Because again, I said, you know, we judge a book by its cover. You know, this particular uh ceramics company that I’m talking about.

 

12:26

had a very outdated logo. Their original logo had like the crosshairs in it and it looked like it was a  gun company. Oh, geez. Yeah, it had nothing to do with, you know, it just sent the wrong message. It looked old.  Their main colors were black  and  light brown. Of course they were.  Just beautiful colors, right?  And we brought in some stuff. We brought in some energy into it.  you know,  and we started most importantly

 

12:56

telling stories that people could identify with, raise their hand and say, you know what, I want to be part of this company. I had a couple of things that I was hoping you could dive into a bit more because, you know, and said a couple of times here,  the fact that it’s a hard sell, right? And then you put the P component in. It’s hard sell in general to get people to truly understand, take the time, all the things we said at the beginning.  Then you add in the P side of things and then you brought up the generational differences.

 

13:26

And so now we’re starting to paint a picture of just the uphill battle for this type of work.  So I would love if you could maybe double click down and help us understand  how do you bring people along? Because we always have naysayers in these companies, right? What are the aha moments? If you have examples, how do you get them over that hump so that they can start to see that if they spend the time and do this work with intention, that valuation is going to go up every every

 

13:54

Story is different, obviously. um And there’s always pushback. People feel uncomfortable with change.  When it comes to branding, people take it very personally. And they should, by the way.  They have visceral reactions to things.  But in order to rally people around a common cause and get them together and get them to be receptive to change, you really need to start

 

14:24

building.

 

14:28

Reasons to believe and those happen around stories and common goals.  Recently we were working with a client over the summer. It was a drone company, okay? They do software for drones. The way, when we first met with them, the way they define themselves is that, we do software that helps you find lost children. It helps you  survey um farmland and crops and stuff like that.

 

14:56

It’s, you know,  it’s  amazing software. And this is the type of software that you would use with the drone, with video, uh for stabilization, for finding moving objects, for heat patterns or stuff like that.  They were some of the most interesting people I’ve ever spoken to.

 

15:16

But a lot of them felt uncomfortable with the idea  of defense, the idea of being labeled as a defense contractor. When in reality, when we spoke to sales, their sales team said, hey, 80 % of what we sell goes to defense. So we are a defense contractor. But there’s a huge disconnect. So we were meeting with these people and they were saying, no, no, I actually feel uncomfortable.

 

15:43

thinking of myself as  working for a software company that helps kill people, right? We started looking more into it and started developing stories  of  how their software was actually being used and come to find out their software was remarkable because it allowed less humans to be involved in warfare. It allowed less boots on the ground.  It was fantastic for reconnaissance,  for surveying.

 

16:12

for  being extremely targeted on things. So, you know, the impact was minimal. And that’s something to celebrate, right? That’s something to be proud of. um They also  prided themselves in  allowing  users of their software to make decisions without having to be looking at screens all day long. You know, in the past, without their software, you might have somebody who’s looking at a video screen all day long trying to find out what’s going on.

 

16:42

Here they have the intelligence um that would feed data to them that would allow them to make decisions  and ultimately save lives. So that’s a very, very different approach now. We’ve kind of changed it from being, I don’t wanna be associated with a company  that could participate in killing people to,  now actually you’re part of a very tactical company that’s bringing intelligence and changing the nature  of defense, right?

 

17:12

That allowed us to have these people rally around a common cause, really believe in what they’re building  and understand how they’re remarkable, how they differentiate  themselves.  And that alignment allows them to appeal to  an investment audience that can see how their offering is far more valuable.

 

17:41

than the competition, far more valuable than what they were before.

 

17:47

So that sort of uh transition and almost flipping of the conversation can happen sometimes in private equity where you  have these people who are purchased obviously for a reason, but they might not have the full picture and they might not be on board with why they  got purchased  or where the company is going.  communication is key and branding is key and messaging is key. In the absence of that,

 

18:15

People say, oh my gosh, I just got acquired. What should I do? I’m going to dust off my resume. I’m going look for another job. I don’t want to work for these guys. No way. I’ve had three bosses in the last two years. Well, I think that’s a really interesting point. And I’m going to come back to that point. But I want to rewind to something that you said and just kind of put a little bit of a thread through this, because I think what’s key here  is that no matter  what side you’re talking, the whole objective is

 

18:45

to create, generate value, right? Regardless if you’re a big brand or a small brand or your PE back brand  or business or service, whatever it is, the whole objective is always to generate value. The big differentiator comes in who you generating value for. So a lot of times from a PE back firm  or why PE investors  get interested in buying companies,

 

19:15

It’s because of what people perceive, especially in the tech world as a better mousetrap, right? It’s a better mousetrap. So a lot of times we get stuck, I think in a PE back  space, especially in a tech space,  of we’re looking for a better mousetrap. And that’s where we kind of hone in the value. And so  it’s reasonable to think then if I’m going to generate any kind of sales, marketing, anything  behind this,

 

19:42

I’m going to focus on the technology. I’m going to focus on why the technology is better. I’m going to focus on  how this is a better mousetrap. I’m going to  focus on what exactly it does.  All of those things that are kind of get really tangibly oriented around that value. But what I hear you saying, Mark, and I think this is the new world, especially with  the younger generation coming in, is that the value is not just  in the technology or the product innovation or whatever that looks like.

 

20:12

It is also in the people. It’s the people that then surround that who are able to take it to the next level, who are able to generate a culture where you have a business that is actually thriving. It’s actually in the awareness and reputation. If you build an awareness and reputation that has value, that people piece and that awareness and reputation piece is solely brand focused. You can’t have that without having a brand. And so if we can change, you know, the  mindset

 

20:42

of the  traditional way that we think about PE back firms and why we buy businesses and why we sell businesses to this bigger, broader context of what value looks like and really hone in on like, okay, who am I creating value for? In one moment, I’m creating value for customers. And another moment, I’m creating value for shareholders or  future shareholders when I’m doing an IPO or current  PE investors.

 

21:09

There’s a lot of places where we’re creating value and we have to think about them all and we have to generate the foundation that’s going to support all of that. And that foundation and what me and April say all the time, being a brand led foundation is your business strategy. If your business strategy relies on brand, helps you make better choices. It helps you to make sure that you’re consistently oriented and driving that clarity you talked about, Mark, all around a hub of

 

21:36

what is going to generate then that revenue and then that value. for me, and kind of listening to you and listening and putting kind of all the pieces together,  it feels like  that seems to be the crux. If  PE, to traditional  point of view of PE backed firms is like, make the tech better, go and market the tech versus, okay, I’m gonna  generate a brand around this so I can increase valuation and I’m gonna consider

 

22:06

the people, the awareness, reputation, all of those things. It is a totally different world. I mean, it is just a totally different world. And I think that’s just the thing that a lot of firms still can’t understand or they don’t embrace. So I’d love to get your thoughts on everything I just said. Obviously I’ve been on my tide box here for the last like, you know, 60 seconds,  but love to hear your reactions to that and just kind of understand a little bit more about like, and I think April was kind of like trying to get to this question too of like, what does it take?

 

22:35

to really break open that mindset and to start to transform that mindset? Like,  what is it that is going to help them to go do that? Well, I think  it takes really two things. Number one, people who are receptive to it. So finding those people who are receptive and who are different. And then number two, showing people what the result is.  When it comes to value, and  you Anne, you said a lot about value there.

 

23:07

Ultimately, value is the inherent value of an object or of a product, right? What does it do? But value is also, how does it feel? And we’re seeing that more and more. And I can give you the example that comes to mind right now is like, okay, I pay $8 for a gallon of milk, right? That’s a lot of money. And I choose to buy that milk for $8.

 

23:36

There is milk  for $3.50 a gallon available, right? That’s the  store brand, whatever milk. But the milk that I buy is organic. It comes in a really well-designed package. It has a story on the side of the carton that talks about the family that grew this. They talk about the cows. They give the cows names, okay?  And I enjoy it.

 

24:06

But you might be asking me, hey, you mean to say that that milk that has a story on the side of the carton  and has better branding and a cool logo tastes better than generic milk? Yes,  it does. It does taste better. Those things matter ultimately, and that is value. um I was reading a fantastic story by um a book by Rory Sutherland, and he talked about a coffee shop in his neighborhood.

 

24:36

that went out of business.  And a month later, somebody moved into that spot and started another coffee shop. And that one went out of business too. And then a few months went by and he would drive by this shop and somebody moved in and started building something new. And he was like thinking, oh my gosh, I hope it’s not a coffee shop because it’s not gonna work. But it was a coffee shop. But this time, these guys put benches out front. They put…

 

25:04

a little separation. So you had to walk around the benches and stuff on the sidewalk. And when it opened, was a line going down the block. And he noticed that it was always busy. Why is that? Well, it’s because benches make coffee taste better. That’s why. And if you don’t believe that, then you don’t get it. So when it comes to the other valuations that you were talking about and stuff,

 

25:33

better stories, better branding, better looking things  make a difference.  And they make people rally around it  and it stands out. mean, going back to this drone company that we worked with, this software company, oh Software for Drones,  we also helped them with their branding and their logo.  We actually made a name change.

 

26:02

but the logo that they had before was terrible. It this maroon spiral thing. Nobody knew what it meant. We turned them into the most badass company ever. You know, it’s dark, it’s dark gray, gunmetal looking stuff, and it’s just a really cool thing. And when you see it at first, your first reaction is, my gosh, that’s super badass. And then after that, you’re like, I wanna know more about this company.

 

26:29

So is it more effective? Absolutely. It’s bringing more value already without even knowing what they’re about. I get the value. Branding does give these easy on ramps and this easy accessibility. Don’t just have a remarkable product. Have a remarkable product and messaging and all the triggers and hooks in the water so you can catch more fish.  Have it oh be remarkable. Have it stand out on its own.

 

26:59

Right? We all want cool things. So make them cool. So as you were talking and total agreement and, know, everybody can’t see us, we’re not nodding along because we agree with  everything you just said.  But I would love to understand from your perspective, when you go in to evaluate on your side, whether to work for these companies, how do you know  or how do you take a

 

27:25

I mean, you don’t know, but you know, take a stab at like, Oh, I think they do have the right mindset. Like you said, or they are open and receptive,  or  we had our first session and that guy’s going to be a problem, but the rest of them seem to be nodding along. You know, like how do you, for your company, because you also want to assess fit and not waste your time on people who don’t buy all this stuff. Right. Or what are those indicators? Because I would love for our listeners to hear like, these are the types of

 

27:53

people and especially in this space, because we’ve talked about the old school and how people don’t get it, that really are the ones that are going to help change the whole mindset of the PE space through the lens of branding marketing. Well, going back to what we said in the beginning, know, like the PE company that is interested in making a purchase, trimming the fat and selling it. Yeah. That’s not my point. That’s a no. Right. And we’re not interested in that. It has to be somebody who

 

28:22

who’s had some mistakes, who knows what risk is, ah knows that there is value in  really getting your hands dirty and trying to understand a business  and dig into what they really, really stand for.  That’s the type of person that we’re looking for, the one that just understands how you build  business through passion, really. Other indicators are

 

28:51

If somebody really cares about what they do and they’re very proud about their products, you know, it’s going to be easier to work with that person. April, you mentioned, you know, that there might be somebody who’s difficult.  Believe it or not, that difficult person in most cases turns into an advocate  later on in the project. You know, it’s just that that person didn’t feel  heard or listened to.

 

29:17

So we as a messaging company or marketing company, we come in and we run workshops. We’re actually looking for those people who are never heard because they most often have something remarkable to say. Absolutely.  And they have an angle that is very, very different. And they’ve been sitting in the background waiting to say, hey, I’ve got a great idea.  we look for that. It’s always good to have the contrarians or the quiet people or

 

29:45

the different points of view, because that’s what helps to generate the really  just a great critical thinking.  And a lot of people shy away from that. But that is also part of the branding. It’s all  it’s always about assessing all the levels of  how people are experiencing what is in front of them, whatever we’re selling. Right. And I think that’s a hit on another really fantastic point, Mark, that I really want to highlight. And when you talked about passionate.

 

30:15

passionate people in developing em and really honing in on the passion. And I think this is another big misconception that PE back firms tend to hold on to is that they generate the passion around whatever they’ve made, whatever that thing is versus the impact that that thing generates. Because what they’ll say, and I hear this all the time, is like, we tell stories, We tell all kinds of stories. We tell stories about

 

30:39

the  performance of this  and  how good it tastes and all those sorts of things. It’s like, but yes, that used to work. It did, it totally worked. I I worked at P &G for 20 years and we used to talk about how good Tide performed and we still do. But what is transitioning and  this is where the big like juices  is that we have to understand that people care more about the impact it has on them.

 

31:06

And those are the stories that we back firms are still not really honing in on. So when you were talking about the milk, when you were talking about the ceramic company, that was like  Morris trying to get into. Why do we even care? Yes. I mean, on my side, why should I even care if I’m a customer, if I’m a client, if I’m, uh you know, an investor, if I’m know, why should I even care or an employee or an employee? And we’ll get to that part in a second. Yeah, yeah. But I think it’s it’s a lot of like.

 

31:32

really honing in on that and being intentional about really cultivating that and realizing that the stories have changed, the stories that matter have changed.  it’s because a lot of times that passion  and we know like especially on the founder story and we talked about this with Steve Canton of Altezza  a couple of episodes ago where like the whole like founders journey is like is generally a lot of what they have decided it to be.

 

32:02

in that moment. So it is them for so, so, so, so long, whatever they’ve come up with their brain and put it down into paper, into reality, it’s become, it’s them. And then transitioning it to something that’s beyond them can be quite challenging, which is the whole encompassing of the brand. And that’s where, again, when we talked about Steve, we talked about this, this dance of sales and branding and marketing and coming together and telling the right stories. I’m just very curious.

 

32:29

Mark, if you can  talk about how that has been transformative and you kind of mentioned a little bit about the ceramics company, but talk about  how that’s  when  PE back firms really get that, how that has made such a difference. Ultimately, I think all marketing comes down to  relationships. It’s me relating to you. In order for that to happen correctly, there needs to be a courtship. Right?

 

32:58

And there are rules around a courtship. You don’t just meet somebody and put an engagement ring on their finger the first date, right? I hope not.  I got April on our first meeting. She didn’t think she was going to like me. I got her after three hours. Well, that’s just because you guys are special. But  if it’s not OK to put an engagement ring on somebody’s finger on the first date,  why is it OK for businesses to act that way?

 

33:27

Why is it okay for businesses to say,  great to meet you or, you know, I’d reach out to you on LinkedIn. Let, let, let’s get on a meeting. Let, let, let, let’s talk to each other. Wait, hold on buddy. Pump the brakes a little bit. There’s a courtship that needs to happen. What are you about? Why should I care? What’s in it for me? I mean,  and you touched on, you know, what’s in it for me, right? I don’t care about your product. I care about me. You know, and, and I think that that’s where.

 

33:56

It’s difficult, of course, for most  investment guys in PE to understand that because that’s not their world. ah But I think that, yeah, you can educate them and you can find those people who do care, but also you can start crafting a narrative that  works better  with their audiences, works better for sales. You know, I mean, every time we go into a company,

 

34:22

And, you know, I  happen to be working with a lot of companies. I have engineers and, you know, industrial technology and stuff. And yeah, I mean,  when you talk to them and you say, hey, how do you do your sales? Well, we got data sheets. We’ve got our products. That. It always comes down to the same thing. These engineers are dying to speak to other engineers. That’s all they want to do.

 

34:51

There is so much truth in that I’m laughing because  it’s so insular. is. Everything you’re saying is totally right on. Yeah. So it’s just like how so the best sales process to me listening to that is, oh, how can we get engineers to talk to each other as soon as possible? Right. I’ve got this problem. I got this thing. I’m passionate about it. Let’s have a conversation. And that conversation turns into here’s our offering. Have you thought about it this way? Oh.

 

35:20

you could do this, oh, stop it, let’s do something else. And they get excited and they geek out on something and they do what they do best, which is being geeky engineers.  We need to allow for companies to almost get out of the way when it comes to sales  and get people to  get back to what they’re really, really passionate about. Instead of saying,

 

35:48

You know, oh,  here we are with this huge brand. We have this offering and this offering and we do, you know, uh we serve these industries and here’s our stats.  you know, we make, you know, 30 million in sales every year and we blah, blah, blah. What’s in it for me? That’s not about me. Do you know what I mean? So, so, um so the, the, the, the sooner you can get, you can accelerate  a, an offering.

 

36:18

that can become personal, the more successful you’re gonna be when it comes to messaging, when it comes to that message translating to a sale, right? So I mean,  the one thing that comes to mind is um during our Christmas shopping, went to one of the, my family, my wife and I went to one of those little Christmas shop village thingies.  And there was this guy that was selling uh handbags.  His main messaging said,

 

36:47

We use plastic bottles. We recycle plastic bottles to make bags. Great idea. I love that. Fantastic for the environment. I don’t know how he does it, but anyway.  And on each bag, he had something that said 19 bottles, 64 bottles,  22 bottles. And it told it said how many bottles were used to fabricate this thing.  And I was thinking about it. I walked away and then I walked back and I  said to the guy, are you the owner of this? I said, yeah, yes.

 

37:17

What are you trying to sell me? Bottles or bags? So he said, well, bags, of course. All right. Tell me how cool of a bag it is. Tell me how I should use it. Tell me how  why I should buy this bag rather than another bag. And by the way, it happens to be made from recycled bottles. Now you can identify with it. You know what I mean? Very different way to message to somebody. Very different way to bring value.

 

37:45

but you’re making it all about the customer rather than all about how  it was built. Saying the number of bottles makes it all about the company. Saying that it’s a remarkable, amazing bag and you should buy it and this is why makes it about the customer. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. And going back to the point you made about the salespeople, right? As you were talking,  the best salespeople are passionate about what they’re actually selling, right? And the beauty of that is when you take the handcuffs off as the company,

 

38:15

and you allow them to really embrace and tell those unique stories.  On the other side of that though, what I was thinking  is when you don’t give the brand and the messaging and the strategy to those salespeople,  it can go rogue, right? Because then they’re creating  and you meet five salespeople from the same company  or five engineers or whatever you, whoever you want to talk about  and

 

38:43

It’s not holding together as a singular story. So then once again, you’ve missed the boat on being able to unify that and really prop those people up in a way that supports them beyond their sale sheets and all of those things. Versus when you have that full brand, you have that overarching strategy we’ve been talking about this entire time that then everybody in the company has a playbook to speak from. And it’s from the heart of what the company represents, which has been your point all along, Mark.

 

39:11

versus just we sell these widgets or these gadgets or the plastic or all those types of things. Yeah, absolutely. mean, inconsistent messaging  is a killer for sales, right? You get slower integration, you lose customers, you’re weak in your differentiation because your messaging isn’t hitting on  all the points it should be hitting on, and you aren’t  able to  amplify and build  at mass, really. Yes. Which is why it’s also…

 

39:41

It’s so extremely important to have PR people who are part of your marketing team, because they help you create and craft that consistent messaging that then will leave those themes through and  create that opportunity for those connections to happen. Because I love what you said is, uh it’s about relationships. And that is totally correct, which allows me then one of my favorite sayings, which is,

 

40:07

until the  world’s run by robots, there’s always going to be a person on the other side of the sale.  And in the context of a lot of B2C,  again, coming from P &G, we get that. We start with the customer and consumer. For some reason, on a lot of these PE-backed  firms and portfolio companies, they don’t. They start with the technology. So I think that is a really  fantastic point to really just  hammer home.

 

40:35

On the other side, guys, start on the other side. It will totally transform the way you think about your business. It’s going to totally transform your business in the same vein. So  start from the other side. Start focusing on your customer, your consumer, your buyer, whoever that person is for you and think about them as a person. Think about what kind of impact you want to generate for that person and then sell that. That’s where the most intrinsic value comes from. Right.

 

41:03

So I wanted to hone in on that point because I think it was a really important point, but I know both of you guys are really humming to get back into the internal piece because  this is April’s favorite place to talk about. And I do want to talk about this, which is what we would call the internal brand, which, or what you create amongst the people. And we’ve mentioned this several times about how important the people are. Again, that not  that used to not be as big of a deal just 10, 15, 20 years ago, we would hone in and especially in PNF back for instance.

 

41:30

Couple of technologists that were really key, maybe an  executive here or there, but now your company is full of  passionate people who really need purpose  and the people are also becoming  the  key part of the valuation because getting new people is really, really difficult. And so you want a business that’s gonna have a strong team that is going to then  go with that business or continue to fuel that business.

 

42:00

Which is another really fantastic place for a brand to play. So I love if you could talk about this mark and you also have a different like lens on this, which I think is extremely interesting to you about like when  a  like or when a brand or a company is actually bought  and the dynamic that happens in that transformation. So can you speak to all of that, please? Sure, yeah,  there’s so much that you laid down there, so. um

 

42:24

I was going to say tall order. do want to say before I  get into the last part of your question is that. In that courtship that we talked about in the relationship building, you know, the question is, you know, how do you build a relationship?  And um I don’t see a difference between building a relationship between two humans  and a human and a product or a human and a company.  You shouldn’t see those differences. So how do you build a relationship? To me, it’s by being interesting.

 

42:54

Boring people don’t build good relationships. Interesting people build good relationships, right? Because you wanna know more about them, right? If you go to  a job interview  and you just talk about your qualifications, well, no shit. You wouldn’t have been invited to the interview if you didn’t have the qualifications, right? How are you different? How are you interesting? Tell me something I haven’t heard before. And that’s where  some of the best interviews are  those where you ask.

 

43:24

Hey, what you do outside of work? I collect stamps. Oh, really? Tell me about that. Why do you collect stamps? Oh, well, I started doing that with my grandmother when I was a kid, and I just love peeling the paper off the back of a used stamp. Really? How do you do it?  Put it in water. It’s becoming interesting, right? It’s something that most people would be like,  stamp collector? Give me a break. That’s so boring, right? Well, it’s not boring because there’s passion behind it. So companies need to find that too.

 

43:53

and do that and  be interesting. Don’t be boring. Be interesting. Okay. Stand out.  Do something fun. Have your employees love doing things. Give them different experiences. m Celebrate the unusual. You know, we’re all fascinated with weird things. Well, then celebrate weird things. Show weird things. But, you know, when it comes to  not bringing it back to  P.E. and acquisition and stuff like that,

 

44:22

There’s something there’s a term we’ve coined, is acquisition turbulence. And that’s, that’s when, when you’re part of a company that just got acquired, it’s usually done under the cloak of secrecy.  And you don’t, you, you’re brought into a conference room and this has happened to me. It’s probably happened to both of you. yeah. Yep. You’re in a room and you’re either in the a group or the B group.  And if you’re in the B group, it’s like, Hey guys,  uh, today’s your last day.

 

44:49

If you’re in the A group, it’s, hey, we’re no longer this  ABC company. We’re now DEF company. uh Your boss is somebody new. That is very, very scary. It’s a shock to the system. And there’s a lot of turbulence that comes with an acquisition.  And I call it turbulence because it’s comparable to being on a plane  where some people on a plane may be listening to a podcast and there’s little bit of turbulence and they’re fine with it. They’ve been through it before. But other people…

 

45:19

freak out and they clutch the seat and they’re thinking, my gosh, I need to pray to my higher power that this plane is not going to go down and they can’t focus on anything else. Right. um That’s really difficult. I think that at that point, it’s very, very important slash vital that you have a PR partner and a marketing team that’s going to provide the right messaging to alleviate that.

 

45:48

that pressure, that loss and  that turbulence, right? So you can know what’s happening. What does the future look like? Should I stay with this company or should I go? What is important for me? What  am I to do? It’s very personal, right? We all experience turbulence in a different way. And the more you can communicate to your employees,

 

46:18

in an acquisition deal, a private equity acquisition deal, the better off you’re going to be because you’re setting the course. You’re going to find the people who are going to actually spearhead your initiative and help you along the way. um You won’t have your top talent  jump ship, which I know is a big, big problem that happens a lot. And you can start building a narrative that is going to attract  new people coming to the company to help in your cause.

 

46:47

and help really build a strong foundation and a strong future for a company. And then ultimately, better valuation, better growth, better future. So I’m going to ask a question and then I have some comments on what you just said.  so would you  well,  so to your point about the cloak and dagger, right? And I worked in the agency world forever. So I’ve been in  many of those rooms where it’s A and B and you’re told and the rug’s pulled out from under you and all of that. Is there a way?

 

47:17

to bring people along before that situation happens,  understanding you can’t always tell them what’s happening,  but so that it isn’t such a turbulent moment  when it happens.  mean, I, you know, I think the world is changing and I think that  this  there’s, kind of a myth that it needs to be, needs to happen under the cloak of  secrecy. I think you can let people know beforehand, Hey, you know what our founder,

 

47:47

has been running this company for 50 years. Technology is changing, the world is changing. We haven’t been doing so well over the last five years. We are considering selling. That’s okay to say that because then you can say to people, we care about you. We wanna make sure that this is a good, smooth transition. Help us find that buyer that we’re looking for um or help us change.

 

48:16

You know, that  I think being transparent isn’t that bad  as the private equity firms would lead you to believe. Well, and that’s where I sit too, which is, why I asked that question. Because the other thing,  I think when we think about historically how this goes down,  every company I was at where we experienced this, yes, you let those people go, but you lost so many of your top performers.

 

48:40

And in that seat, I was always wanting to be like, oh, no way. If they waited to tell us until this point,  and you know, what else don’t we know? All of those types of things, which again is how I experienced turbulence. But  I think if you can help people, no matter whether you’re selling the company or not, understand their value each day and their role they play and how important they are. But before you actually get to these moments, so people can feel like they’re valued outside of the business decision.

 

49:09

and have a relationship to the points that we’ve been making with the company that’s actually true and strong, you weather that storm far better. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, great cultures helps with everything. Absolutely.  You know, if you have a fantastic  culture with a leader, with leadership that is very, very tuned in to every single department within a company, well, then obviously communication is going to be so much better for that. You know, and I have some.

 

49:38

You know, like the company where I  met my wife 20 years ago, doesn’t exist anymore, but it was a fantastic investment company called Putnam Investments. Everybody there was fantastic. And we still have probably 20 or 30 friends from that company. And this is 25 years later.  You know, great culture is everything. But  when you have good culture, have  culture is a lubricant to conversations.

 

50:07

the right conversations happening and the right flow of information happening. um That’s so important. And not just internally within a company. If  I go back to that, the milk carton, the milk carton with the message on the side, that’s culture. They’re communicating with people on a more personal level than the company who doesn’t do that.

 

50:31

And I want to just give a PSA on both sides of this too, because I think this is such an important point. And again, I think it’s one that is traditionally overlooked. So whether or not you are a company that is looking for  some sort of PE back funding or to sell, or you are a PE firm that’s looking to buy or acquire. The  one thing that generally comes into  the picture for those who are being bought.

 

50:59

that they traditionally may not have totally had a lot of experience with is boards, right? All of a sudden you have a board that now you are beholden to that doesn’t really know you very well a lot of times. And the number one objective of that board is to put people in place that will serve the business, right?

 

51:24

So what generally happens to the culture that culture roads  the culture breaks down  and this is coming from a lot of people guys. This is not just like ants talk to like a couple of people. mean close personal friends who have built businesses, sold businesses and have seen this happen right in front of them where they think that they are bringing in a partner that has the same values that is going to support their culture and

 

51:51

I mean, it’s just human nature.  The first thing that those PE back firms want or  the PE firms want is results, right? And so I’m going to put in people and I’m going to put in people who are known for the results. These people are not necessarily known for being people people.  So  my PSA is for those people who are thinking about getting PE funding or are selling,  make sure you protect yourself.  Whether it’s through

 

52:19

how you’re negotiating  the way that  the company continues to operate, the impact the board’s gonna have,  make sure all of that is very, very, very clear. Do not take anything for granted there. And if you are a PE firm, you need to learn how to let the company who has been successful operate and hire and put people in place that are gonna serve both the business and the people within the business. We cannot no longer think about just putting people who are like,

 

52:46

That’s a great, mean, he’s a great operator. So we’re to put an operator as a CEO. No, an operator as a CEO is going to be focused on the business, not the people.  So you have to really think about the qualifications that you need in order to make the business successful,  not just keep plucking people who have experience taking this company, you know, to what, a hundred million dollar buyout and then putting them in here and thinking you’re going to get the same experience or get to get the same results because the people  are the,  even though that they are the big like

 

53:16

Like uncertainty, they’re also  the biggest asset.  mean, that’s my PSA. I invite both you guys to comment on that. But that is again, um something that I’ve noticed that needs to change. And it’s a huge issue. And it’s why PE firms and  getting PE funding has such a bad rap. um I love that you said that. And I mean, I don’t think it’s just PE. I think it’s um business in general.

 

53:46

And I would even say it’s American business. I think these what the values that you’re pointing to are going to be more prominent in time really uh it’s gonna take generations. I There are pros and cons of everything  and ah It is difficult to navigate your career and go from company to company and stuff like that but one thing that does come to mind is that we’re in the United States, right  and

 

54:15

This country is the land of opportunity in a lot of cases. It’s definitely the land of opportunity when it comes to building a business But it comes at a price. I mean we are also in a culture that values money over people I think that’s changing. Mm-hmm, but it’s been like that for a long time It isn’t just so much like that in France or in England where they value people a little bit more than money But you know when it

 

54:43

Going back to what you were saying about a board that is there to serve the business, I would add they’re there to serve the shareholders. And it’s about the price.  You said it was about results, results, results. Absolutely. And that’s sad, but that’s one of the downsides of the American business culture is that it’s about money. um One of the upsides is that it’s also about opportunity. We’re one of the most innovative.

 

55:12

countries there is.  grew up abroad, so I have a double perspective on things. But I once had a high school friend uh from France  ask me, is it true that in the United States you can grab opportunity out of the air?  And I said, yes, it is true. It’s absolutely true. And he’s like, really? Give me an example. said, well, you can have a business idea in the morning. You can create an LLC in the afternoon.

 

55:39

And you can start selling products that day, even before your business is complete. You’re allowed to sell products in the U.S. before having a business. That’s great. Because, you know, and you can’t do that in other countries.  Other countries don’t allow you to start a business in one day. So that’s an upside to the U.S. And and and  but going back to,  you know, the right people and the business and maybe caring about the people within a business.

 

56:08

You know, that’s something that will change too over time. You know, I’ve seen acquisitions.  I  used to have a  client when I was um working in the agency world, the bigger agency world,  I had a client that was a senior living company and they had senior living communities throughout the United States.  And they’re very passionate people  and they were bought by a P company and this P company replaced the CEO.

 

56:36

with this woman who was a very nice woman, but she was a lawyer and she didn’t share the same passion. She didn’t fundamentally care about  how you go from  being an aging adult to an aging adult that lives in senior care,  et cetera, et cetera. I met with her and we had to do a video with her and stuff like that. She was a terrible speaker. She didn’t relate to anybody.  On paper, she was fantastic, but  she didn’t motivate people.

 

57:06

And this company doesn’t exist anymore. You know, they got, they got dissolved and it failed and, you know, quality went down. I’m not saying it’s because of this particular CEO that they replaced, but I am saying that is because of the overall culture of the company started caring more about the revenue and who we’re choosing to drive that revenue versus the people and what we’re doing and how it affects families.

 

57:35

very different approach. So these are things that are great to talk about and we should be talking about it more and more and change those pros and cons and hopefully move towards a society that isn’t about making a quick dollar, but rather about building great foundations for great companies. Yeah, I mean, I was just going to say I

 

57:59

I tend to share on my optimistic days and hope like you do that we are shifting toward that more what I would call legacy approach.  Because to Anne’s point, we have seen companies and clients,  and I’ve seen it a lot in family owned businesses specifically,  where that change of hand happens.  And I think people just have to be honest about the reasons that they’re doing it.

 

58:22

and be clear about whether it is a money decision  or it’s a legacy in what I’m leaving behind decision. Because where we sit right now, I feel like that tends to be two pretty different things that then leads to very different decisions.  And that’s where I think, Anne, like you said, we’ve seen a lot of people where the change happens and it’s like, well, what do you mean we’re not doing it like that anymore? Or we let all these people go or…

 

58:47

somebody else took over and suddenly the company doesn’t even exist anymore, all of those types of things when it was truly to make a buck and people thought it was something different. Yeah, absolutely. mean, we need to come back to giving people the reasons to care  about what they’re doing  and to care about the passion.  And in the case of a business that might have a founder that started something

 

59:14

on a passion or on a need that this person, he or she saw and built a company around it. Wow, that is so remarkable, right? You have an idea and you build a company, you know, and then you might go with it for a long time and there’s time that you wanna, maybe you wanna exit and you wanna sell. I would say try to find that company that shares your values. Try to find that company that’s going to understand your story and allow you to

 

59:44

continue  or continue some form of your legacy. And you can identify who that is, know, and just talking to somebody for five minutes, you know, if they, if they get it not. And I really hope that a lot of the P back firms hear that and realize that that shift needs to happen because to me it’s totally ludicrous to think that you found value in this business that you bought and then are slowly basically destroying.

 

01:00:14

Yep. And it comes from a lack of understanding and mindset. The value comes from not only what the business is actually producing, but also the people and also the reputation and the credibility of the business. When you understand those three things and you internalize those three things, it would seem like totally like ridiculous to pluck out a CEO  if the CEO is being productive and putting in a CEO that’s just business oriented. It makes no sense whatsoever. And I’m not saying that changes shouldn’t happen.

 

01:00:44

or that there shouldn’t be optimizations made, but just being intentional is the key and realizing that there’s more than just one piece of the puzzle that needs to be addressed. I mean, I think we have, I mean, really covered this topic. I love the conversation and different insights. Before I let you go, Mark, are you open to some rapid fires? If you’re nice, yeah. If you’re nice.  I can’t guarantee that. If you want somebody nice, April has to ask.  That’s not true.

 

01:01:14

All right, take it away. am an engineer and a PR person all in one little body. So, know, there you got that. OK, well, I’ll start with an easy one. And you kind of  mentioned something earlier, but I don’t know if that’s a current or not. But we always love to ask, what are you reading? Or if you’re since we’re in a podcast, what are you listening to? I well, I mean, you know, you should definitely always listen to things.  I’m listening to podcasts, um you know, business podcasts. Storybrand is one that comes to mind right now.

 

01:01:43

I’m also listening to uh Conan O’Brien’s podcast. Conan O’Brien needs a friend and smart list, all those things.  But in order to learn,  my advice is that you need to listen to different. Go and listen to the podcast that politically is something that you’re absolutely opposed to. Listen to it, okay? Understand how other people think.

 

01:02:08

Go listen to something that is not, that you wouldn’t expect. Like if I come across a podcast on say, uh knitting, which I don’t knit or anything, I might listen to it for a few seconds and give it a shot. It might be the best thing I’ve ever come across.  You never know, you know? It’s important to  kind of diversify what you do and what you listen to, what you read, et cetera, because that’s, again, makes you interesting,  allows you to think differently.

 

01:02:38

I love that. If you could shadow anyone for a day, who would it be?  Richard Branson. Ooh, that’s a one. One April’s favorites. My favorites too.  The founder of uh the Virgin Group. I had an opportunity. um This is going to make me sound old, but I read his book, Losing My Virginity,  after college,  and uh it meant so much to me that I wrote him a letter and he wrote me back.

 

01:03:05

April wrote him a letter and she didn’t get a letter back. ah it’s all about timing.  Oh,  well, you just got April right in the heart. Broke my heart. So sorry. I’m so sorry.  And then we did some we met up, we were skipping and all that stuff.  Oh, yeah. OK. You were having a tea on top of a hot air balloon.  oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just the rest is history. Yeah, right.

 

01:03:36

What is your favorite thing to do to unwind?  Play the guitar, play music. Love that. Love it. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, Mark, it’s been just fantastic having you um for this discussion. But before we close this out,  anything else that we didn’t cover to want to make sure people  hear or put a bow on this and then obviously tell people where they can find you. So one thing that I want people to remember  is honestly,

 

01:04:06

Don’t be boring.  Be edgy. Most people are afraid of risk because for I don’t know what reason they’ve equated creativity with risk, which is ridiculous. And I’m fighting this every single day of my life, right? Be interesting, be edgy, be snarky, make people laugh. Cause that’s how people remember you. That’s how people engage. And that’s what we want. We don’t want boring. So stop being boring.

 

01:04:36

Get off the couch, put the phone down, go do something different. Do something you’ve never done before, okay? Force yourself to do it. Even if it’s something you don’t like, it doesn’t matter. Do it. It will have an impact. Because ultimately, I don’t think you’re gonna sit there on your deathbed and say, you know what? I’m so glad I didn’t jump out of an airplane and do parachuting.  You’re never gonna say that. Unless you’re on the deathbed from jumping out of the airplane. That’s true.

 

01:05:06

Thanks a lot for destroying what I just said, oh So, no, but just do something different  and you only regret what you don’t do.  I love that. Not the stuff you do that you regret. I come on. And then  as far as finding me, uh I’m fortunate that I was able to grab markrust.com, but my company is consequently creative. We go by CQC as well.  And  you can just Google my name, Mark with a C, R-U-S-T.

 

01:05:36

And I’m on Instagram as well. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. And with that, encourage all of our listeners to take at least one PowerPoint insight you heard and put it into practice. There’s a ton today. I mean, a  whole treasure trove of them. Remember strategic counsel is only effective if you put it into action.  Did we spark something with this episode that you want to talk about further?  Reach out to us through our website, forthright-people.com.  We can help you customize what you have heard to move your business.

 

01:06:05

and make sure to follow or subscribe to Strategic Council on your favorite podcast platform.