How to Build Unconventional Cultures That Thrive with Gui Costin, Dakota: Show Notes & Transcript

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

In this episode of Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business, we’re talking how to build unconventional cultures with Gui Costin. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review!

• Episode Summary & Player
• Show Notes
• Strategic Counsel Summary
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How to Build Unconventional Cultures That Thrive with Gui Costin, Dakota

It’s a unique time for company culture. From dilemmas about flexible work schedules to generational gaps, leaders are throwing up their hands trying to figure out how to motivate without micromanaging. It might just take an unconventional culture to thrive. We wanted you to learn from a thought leader who’s built just that, so we welcomed on Gui Costin, the Founder & CEO of Dakota and Author of The Dakota Way and Millennials Are Not Aliens. Dakota is a sales and marketing company for investment firms that has raised over $40 billion since 2006. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

• Culture is however you define it
• How do leaders find people who are the right fit?
• Why are unconventional cultures needed right now?
• How Gui has cracked the code of motivating Gen Z employees
• The difference being nice and being kind

And as always, if you need help in building your Strategic Counsel, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at: ForthRight-People.com.

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:

Show Notes

• How to Build Unconventional Cultures That Thrive with Gui Costin, Dakota
  • [0:29] Welcome to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business
  • [1:28] Welcome, Gui Costin!
  • [2:39] Why is unconventional culture needed now?
  • [4:57] How do you maintain accountability?
  • [9:58] How did Gui decide on the culture he wanted to make?
  • [16:30] How do leaders find people who are the right fit?
  • [21:28] Culture can be however you define it
  • [23:53] Gui’s process for hiring
  • [29:56] The art of bringing new people into the team
  • [32:26] How Gui has cracked the code of motivating Gen Z employees
  • [37:57] The theory of life and cell transfer
  • [42:20] Can you truly fix people?
  • [46:55] Level set expectations for the role
  • [49:33] The difference between being nice and being kind
  • Quick-Fire Questions
  • [55:46] If Gui could ask one person one question…
  • [56:16] What’s one shift he would make on the Eagles?
  • [57:09] What is he reading or listening to right now?
  • [57:55] Connect with Gui Costin and check out his books
  • [58:28] Make sure to follow Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast spot and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts
  • [58:37] Learn more at ForthRight-People.com and connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn

What is Strategic Counsel?

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

Thanks for listening Strategic Counsel. Get in touch here to become more strategic. 

Transcript

Please note: This transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:03

Welcome to the Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business podcast.  If you’re looking for honest, direct and unconventional conversations on how to successfully lead  and operate in business,  you are in the right place.  In our discussions, we push on the status quo and traditional modes of thinking  to reveal a fresh perspective.  This unlocks opportunity for you, your team  and your business. Now let’s get to it.

 

00:29

Welcome to the Strategic Counsel podcast. I’m Anne Candido. And I am April Martini.  And today we’re going to talk about how to build unconventional cultures that thrive. So many of our clients have been struggling, I mean, really struggling to establish cultures that serve both the people and the business. And this is like dilemmas about flexible work schedules, what’s being called generational gaps.  Leaders are just literally throwing up their hands trying to figure out how to motivate without micromanaging.

 

00:58

Yes, and you know we’re very straightforward when it comes to culture. One of our pillars under forthright business is actually organizational development.  So not only will we have lots to say, but we’re going to go right at what is getting in the way today in this discussion. And a bit of a spoiler alert, a good part of it is actually our own mindsets. Yes, that’s true. And we have a special guest to help us with this, and that is Gui Costin, founder and CEO of Dakota. Gui, it’s awesome to have you for this conversation. You want to?

 

01:28

Say hi to the listeners and give them a bit of your story. Thanks so much for having me. I do appreciate it. Our company has been around close to 20 years. The first part was a straight sales business for investment firms. We do sales to help them raise capital for their investment funds. And then we had about 12 people on that team and we still do today. And that business is still thriving and doing well. And then in 2019, we made the decision to commercialize our database that we use to raise the money for those investment firms.

 

01:56

And today we ended up hiring 65 people and counting and have about 1300 investment firms as subscribers and about  7,000 individuals. So a whole new different business that culture is really at the focal point of everything we do in the company. Yeah. And it’s quite a diverse set of people too, that have to build culture around and are coming  from so many different parts of the ecosystem. this is going to be

 

02:24

I think a really good conversation to really understand not just culture within your team, but culture within the business itself. And so with that, I think let’s just get started with kind of how we titled this episode, which is how to build unconventional culture. And you and I have had a little bit of a conversation about your culture and the style of it and what we call it  as unconventional. And I’d love just for you to talk a little bit about it and you really tell us about why do you think it’s needed now? This is one person’s opinion. Culture is how you treat people.

 

02:53

And how you treat people has to do with the words that come out of the leader’s mouth. Some people don’t have a filter and they and they have no discipline. So they’ll say whatever they want. Others, I believe in kindness. Now I evolved. Right. It wasn’t always this. It was a very, very much an evolutionary process because I did two startups and there’s tensions and there’s frustrations. And but what you realize as you go along, any organization

 

03:21

number one goal needs to be to keep their best people. That’s  number one, right? Every business is a people business. People leave jobs because they don’t like their boss generally.  And that’s because their boss treats them poorly or badly or what have you.  And it’s just so important. I can keep going on in terms of the overall effects on society and life and everything. If there’s a lot of job turnover and it really does come down to the leader and how they treat

 

03:49

everyone because then everyone else is going to treat everyone else just like the leaders treating them  and You just you can’t have full permission to say whatever you want all the time at least I don’t think if you want to keep your best people the combo though that is very difficult is Can you maintain a very hard-charging culture of service to your customers and your teammates? While doing it with kindness. We’ve proven you can that to me is the sort of vexing question

 

04:19

Yeah, and I think it’s a really good one because we talk about that fine line with our clients as well, right? About this whole idea of treating people like people, treating them humanely, all of these things and respecting them. so totally agree with you.  But then on the other side of that, the part of the conversation we’re often having is around accountability.  And how do you make sure that people understand their role within the organization and like you said, are willing to charge forward, be hard chargers in it and…

 

04:47

really represent the clients the right way. And I think it is a tricky balance.  I would just ask, like, how do you  manage that sort of tenuous nature, if you will?  Because the other piece of what we often talk about is it’s not a set it and forget it exercise, right? So how do you continue to  maintain that? mean, my word’s accountability, you know, however you want to talk about it. How do you make sure that that continues to happen? First off, I treated everyone like adults  and

 

05:15

Everybody in the interview process, everybody gets it from me. And then it’s like, look, this is not going to be a place for you. If you can’t be accountable, if you’re not a hard charger, if you don’t want to play at the highest level of professionalism, if you don’t want to be the best version of yourself, it’s not going to be a spot for you. And so first off, so, and, but I walked the talk,  no T and E policy, no vacation policy. What I think you’re asking is what I think that comes down to is trust. Do you express trust?

 

05:45

right? Do they believe you actually so I just gave you two of the most biggest areas of a business that would say trust all day long or no trust micromanaging on expenses micromanaging on I think  everybody teases me all the time about those things called a they’re like paid vacation days off RPIs or RPOs or something like that.  PTO Yeah, right. PTO I don’t I don’t know what that means. Right? Because it’s just take it. Take the time you need. I’m trust you to get your job done. Now you can’t get your job done.

 

06:14

Right?  It’s a very short leash. so you need to attract people to look around and want to act like adults, but you can’t treat them like children and expect them to act like adults. Right? So it’s like, it’s a two way deal. You know what I’m saying? So it’s just like, and it’s amazing. Like you have young kids, I have kids that two out of college, just out of college. And, you know, I kind of took the tax cause my dad was, you know,  very judgmental dude, like crazy, crazy, crazy judgmental, like everything. So I just did the opposite.

 

06:44

And it really defines my leadership style. Cause I’m like, look, I don’t want to be judged and teased and the whole thing. And so I’m not going to do that. I’m to treat you like an adult. I’m going to expect you to get your job done. It’s going be very transparent, right? But in between, there’s going be a lot of love, right? And we’re going to have a lot of fun. And cause I have to love everyone I work with that’s 80 plus people. And I have to have fun, right? We have to have fun together, right? Cause you spend more time at work than you do with your family. What’d you see?

 

07:12

when your kids get to be 13, 14, and then they go upstairs and, you know, hanging out I don’t see them ever. Or they can drive and you definitely never see them ever. It’s the rite of passage. you know, so and I love hanging out with my kids and I really do love hanging out with the team and building something together and watching them grow.  And it’s a little bit shades of gray. You can’t work eight straight hours a day. We have gym memberships for everybody that we pay for and

 

07:40

we expect they get out of the office and walk around and hang out, have conversations, stuff like that. But the other goal at the end of the day, look, we got to execute, we got to get the job done. And there’s always, I’m not a wilting lily. So it’s kind of like, but I’m not a jerk about it. And now I’m not going to say that in the old days of the locker room when we started, a bunch of ex lacrosse players and athletes, that I was a little bit more abrupt in my patience level. It’s still.

 

08:09

You know, I still have a serious impatience level, but I do it with kindness.  And I think the most important thing is they’re too tied together. People have to know that you’ve got their back. Right. And you’re there to take care of them. Like if they have an out, like that’s why CEO has to have an open door policy. A CEO has to feel like anybody can come to them with an issue, with a question, can you remove this obstacle for me? And I do it every single time. Cause that’s my job.  My job is remove obstacles and help people. And they have to know.

 

08:39

that I’m there for them and I want them to be growing their career. All right. There’s so much to unpack. All right. I’m going to try to  start someplace and go and flow this so it doesn’t just become very overwhelming because you said a lot of really wonderful things I want to dig into.  The first thing, though, I want to really highlight the point where you said culture starts at the top, right? It is basically leader defined. And I think this is a really tough thing for a lot of leaders wrapped their mind around because

 

09:09

They will say, well, the culture is all of us.  And I, in April, will say, well, yes, it’s all of the people that are going to be part of the culture that’s going to help to bring the culture to life, but one person has to define the culture. They need to decide what the business or the team or the category, whatever your purview is, is going to stand for and how that, call it whatever it is, we’ll call it team or your business.

 

09:34

is going to operate or how they’re going to operate. What are the expectations? What are the operating principles? How are we going to behave and act and treat each other? So I think that’s a really, really important point. So I want to rewind back to that a second and really talk to you about how did you define that for yourself? You mentioned a little bit about your dad and how you did not want to be. And  I think there’s probably some element of like experience there. But  how did you decide that this is the kind of culture I wanted to create?

 

10:04

I have to love everyone I work with. I realized in 2011 very vividly, because I put it on our website, I realized that I needed to make it about everyone else, not about me. And so my mission at that point was to help other people get what they want out of life. you announced in my early mid forties, and I guess a lot of people said that’s when they’re kind of the epiphany, you know, kind of happens.  And I realized that  and I dedicated the whole business to exactly that helping other people get what they want out of life.

 

10:33

And what you said about what do we stand for? So standards, right? That’s kind of the same way. It’s the same concept. What are your standards? What do you stand for?  And you have to define that on a daily basis. Those are your core principles. If you go through our office upstairs, we have a hallway that’s 20 feet long on both sides. And it’s a mural of all of our decodisms, which are our core principles. And it’s like, what do you stand for? Right. And of course, you stand for probably honesty and integrity and

 

11:00

all that stuff, but it needs to be defined more deeply in the words and the phrases you use internally. Just look, look at any, we were talking earlier about the Eagles and the Cowboys and just think about leadership as a coach and think about the teams and the NFL that win and then look at the front office, look at the head coach.  Right? I mean, come on. mean, it’s like, it’s a pretty telegraphic point. That’s  That’s it.

 

11:29

Dan Snyder with the Washington Redskins or commanders, mean, are you kidding me? Right? I mean, look, they never won. As soon as they put Josh Harrison, he brings in the guy, the total leader from, you know, the can or whatever the Warriors. And they completely turn the culture around in one year. Well, not to mention you took our best of points of coordinator. Washington took our best of points of coordinator we’ve had in so many years. And made him their coach. And then they won. And I mean, oh, that was rough. That’s really rough.

 

11:58

And you can say they have a but my point is look at look at the Philadelphia Flyers Haven’t been you know, the Stanley Cup and everything were owned by a corporation Right. There’s no right. There’s no, you know account, you know Who’s going down and you know making sure they the  best house whatever their culture is It’s how you treat people when the Mavericks were owned by Mark Cuban He did things for that team right that most owners wouldn’t do

 

12:26

He took care of his players. His players knew he had their back. He supported them. So  my point is that think that’s  what you’re saying. It’s what you stand for. It all comes from the top  and it can’t come from anywhere else. And sometimes it can come from like a  very rarely is that a horrible home office  or  front office and then a coach. But we’ve had an amazing owner sort of rub it in for the Eagles. But know, Jeffrey Laurie has been

 

12:54

an unbelievably consistent owner for 30 years.  mean,  year in and year out, Andy, I mean, it’s been quite extraordinary, you know, and so it’s and that and I see the results. It’s crazy. But yeah, and I do take this very seriously because I’m playing with fire, right? People come into the office and they’re treated a certain way. You’re playing with fire. You’re playing with people’s lives, their emotions,  their families, they come home.

 

13:19

You know, how’s your day at work? know, he’s a complete jerk. He’s an ass. He said this. He said that I’m not going to say that  little thing like things can happen. It actually happened a lot more earlier on in the six years of this last business when we just didn’t hire the right people, not  no one’s fault, right? It just wasn’t a good fit.  And now that we’ve gotten more to the fit, if you will, across the board,  very low odds.

 

13:49

very low  HR stuff, very low  turnover. In fact, we just hired, we’re just hiring another customer service manager. She’s awesome. And I looked at the team, I’m like, man, you guys have set a ridiculously high bar. Because it’s like, she found us on LinkedIn, came in, we’re like, okay, that’s for the team.  In  all likelihood, unless she just really doesn’t like it, she’s gonna end up being very successful. So over time, right? And then also,

 

14:17

A’s like to hang out with A’s. You can have diversity, which we do, if you look at, you know, from, you know, across the board, we have more female leaders  in  big roles, running teams, if you will, than we do male leaders just to kind of give you one, for instance. But that’s, that’s really, really  important that you get the fit right. And then you only hire for the right fit. If you’re just hiring to hire, cause you know, I want to have this look in a certain way, that’s a recipe for disaster. Then there’s no.

 

14:44

cohesiveness of the people, right? You have to share common characteristics, common things you all believe in. And by the way, it’s across the board how you treat people, whether it’s your barista.  We have a legendary doorman down in our building here in downtown Philly, Eddie. I mean, he is the king. He comes to our Christmas parties.  mean, it’s like, you know what mean? Yeah, he’s the king. know, he’s everything you’d ever want in that role. And we love him and take care of him. And he’s just awesome. And he’s just biggest character of all time.

 

15:15

the love of kindness there, you know, like, it just, it kind of goes across everything. And then how you treat your customers, your responsiveness, all those things, but then, it becomes like a flywheel, right? Then everyone just knows expectation is wow, heads roll, right? If we don’t respond in five minutes. Now I don’t take out an ax and like run around the office screaming and yelling, but everyone’s very, very clear that, you know, if you’re not responsive, just  is not going to a good place for you to work. So it’s okay. It’s okay.

 

15:43

You can go work with someone else, but we have customers to take care of, and we’re showing insane disrespect if we’re not responsive. And if we’re in business to take care of people and serve, we got to be responsive. And that’s okay if you don’t believe in that, but this is not the spot for you. Yeah.  Well, and I mean, the way we talk about and sort of sum up a lot of what you said is we talk about the culture being defined, like Anne said, from the top down, totally agree with that. And then that you have to hire, fire, and evaluate based on that.

 

16:10

And so you had a lot of good points and examples in what you just said, everything from this new person coming on to the way that the team  holds each other accountable and then you hold them accountable.  And then the idea of having it on the walls in the office is the other piece where clearly you’re not one of these, but we also have other places where people put it on the walls, but then it’s never actually activated.  And so  I would love if you could talk to us a little bit about like a peek behind the curtain of

 

16:41

You whether it’s an interview situation how do those go real time to make sure you’re getting the right people in the right seats or as you’re working together every day how are you making sure people  are holding each other accountable and then you’re able to do that i mean you have another job you have the overall job of being the owner of the company right  and then also when it’s time to depart from people.

 

17:02

kind of making sure that that kindness continues because you’re also totally right. Your reputation is outside the walls of the organization for sure, whether it’s people’s families if they’re unhappy or if they depart and what are they saying about you when they go out the door?  So I would love to just hear a little bit more about how you take what’s on those walls  and you instill that in people from the minute they  are interviewing with you all the way through to their tenure with you and even after it’s time for them to go. Yeah. So when I just interviewed Kate, we sat down, had a conversation.

 

17:31

And I heard her backstory, learned everything about her. We were already going to hire, I knew going in. And then I just went right into the culture. And I said, the thing you have to know is culture and kindness, and then the Dakotaisms. And then she had known a few of them. A lot of people go onto our website and look at them. And then everybody who joins the company gets a personal bio video done right here where I’m sitting right now. And our videographers interview them, ask them, let’s say, seven, eight, nine questions.

 

18:00

One of them is, what is your favorite decodism? So, and then they said that means obviously they know ahead of time, they study them, everybody knows them. And then the simplest thing is we basically had an office that’s like say 10 by 10. And then across the way we took the space. And so we knocked down that wall, which was another office of 10 by 10. So created a hallway, two charcoal colored walls.  And we have an awesome graphic designer, so on. So I said, so on, let’s do a mural wall. So she designed both sides.

 

18:29

and you can design them and then they will enlarge them and print them and then hang them like wallpaper.  so we did that.  And we talk about them all the time. And now there’s been moments when the first group that I trained up is my like my brothers and they started going cowboy. That’s don’t go cowboys. One decodism meaning you want to tap into the collective knowledge of the group. Another decodism that’s the sister to that one is walk the eight feet. So in all likelihood, if you’re in an office and you’re eight feet away from the other office door.

 

18:59

And that person has an insane amount of knowledge. Okay. But most people don’t go in and are like, Hey, Joe, Susan, Hey, I have a question for you. I’m working on this and working on that. Any thoughts? So you have all this knowledge around the company, but if you’re not walking the eight feet and interacting and asking questions of your teammates, tapping into their collective knowledge, and then they’re tapping, tapping into yours,  you’re, missing out. So we’re always trying to press and the don’t go cowboy is where someone holds back information.

 

19:28

until they ride on their big white horse. They’re like, oh, I’m working on a $50 billion deal. This is amazing. And then like, literally, it happened. It happened to Dakota.  And everyone got so quiet. And the new guy’s like, what? He’s looking around. And they’re all just like, And they knew, they knew, knew it was like, it was over, right? I’m like, you were literally taking a knife out, okay, and slicing into my heart, okay, of what we try to do as a team.

 

19:56

because we want to win as a team. And if you’re not going to tell the team what you’re working on, then the team can’t help you because the team could say, hey, you know what? just I had that problem yesterday. I was literally in New York City in a meeting and that person brought this up. This is how I answered the question. I mean, you have this whole team around you, right? And so it sounds like very intuitive, but it’s really not. And it’s not. And so you really got to constantly discuss it. The communication thing is by far and away after culture.

 

20:26

pulling, getting people to pull information out of themselves  and say it,  share it with the team is  that was our theme yesterday of our W days. have monthly W days. What’s working, what’s not working. People come off sites. You sit down with a seven person team. The other people come in, no preparation. What’s working, what’s not working. How can we help solve any problem that you have in front of you?  think the thing I want everybody to hear is that

 

20:55

these principles by which you’re building the culture are  principles that you guys live by.  And I think so many people  are so wrapped up in the traditional ways of operating, call it the corporate environment or however you wanna define it, that culture has to be a certain way. And I think what you’re kind of blowing the lid off of is that culture can be whatever you define it, as long as you define it and you put the principles in place and people can actually

 

21:25

internalize the principles, they practice the principles, and then you’re hiring for those principles. And I think the really interesting thing that you said was that you kind of knew that you were going to be hiring Kate even before she came in. Like you’d already looked at her credentials, likely you’d already looked at her skills. You may have already checked out her references. What you were really looking for was a culture fit. Am I wrong in saying that? Yeah, a hundred percent. We also had, we needed to stop bringing people in.

 

21:53

that then eventually didn’t make it through. We should be able to do enough work ahead of time where there’s like 95 % success. We have to really, you know, I can’t, because of HR, can’t name situations, but in the past six months, there’s been situations where someone walks in and I’m like, we have a huge open area, a huge kitchen, soaring ceilings. And I’m like, man, that, like we should have known, like this, like.

 

22:21

That’s not good for that person. It’s not good for us. It’s just not a cultural fit. can tell immediately. You know what I mean? And it was, was, has nothing to do with like color of someone’s skin or anything like that. It was just, you could just tell that immediately. It’s just, I, you know, I just know our culture. If you, if you walked around, you know, it’s like a lot, a lot of similar type people, similar ambitions, similar goals, similar ways of being, you know, I mean, just, you know, there’s a lot shared in a way of conducting yourself and listen,

 

22:51

We know there can be much more sharp-elbowed firms where it’s like that’s where that type of personality goes to work.  And they love it, right? And they all love being sharp-elbowed together. And that’s their thing. That wouldn’t be for me.  You know what I mean? Like I couldn’t work in an environment like that.  I’m not saying we have a perfect environment. I’m just saying we’ve created this sort of  similar shared values  and way of behaving, way of treating each other, way of kind of a lot of these people, they don’t have to do this, but a lot of…

 

23:20

Huns them hang out after work together because they’re kind of in their 20s and  30s and they just get along. They’re shared values. They have a lot of fun together.  that just makes work. Why can’t work be a blast? And then how do you screen an interview for that thing? How do you take that? And what have you learned through those missteps or  because you said, just know like  there must be some way that you screen for it then then you can.

 

23:44

Is it through a person’s resume? Is it in the way they behave? Is it in questions you ask, or is it in a certain style of interviewing process you do? Like, can you give us any of like some of the  nitty gritty tangibles if somebody is listening and like, I want to do what Guy’s doing. Tell me how to go do that. Yeah, I mean, if you’re talking specifically hiring, hiring is very, very complex because you’re dealing with human beings. Like it’s very, very complex in personalities and really trying to see, right, if this is going to be a fit.

 

24:13

And there’s the old adage, hire slow, fire fast. mean, the firing fast part’s a disaster. You’d rather be able to try to diagnose it upfront. We’ve learned a lot along the way. And I think we’re way more patient now. And there can be, in a startup kind of mode, there could be an impatience around, no, no, we really need to fill this role. And what I we realized is that, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we don’t. It’s not worth it. It’s three to six months.

 

24:41

Right. And  we’ve had some very good scenarios and I’m, was never trying to be mean to anyone, but it’s like, look, this is just not going to be a fit. You’re going to leave after three to six months. It’s going to be frustrating. And so you, it’s almost like you have to do, you know, those Expedia commercials where you’re going to book it and then you have to like show you what the whole thing is going to be like. And then, you you’re like in the grand Canyon and everyone’s getting killed kind of thing. And then you’re like, then you come back and you extrapolate out three to six months  and

 

25:08

You just have to be incredibly impatient and then also not  you. You almost have to take that now.  This, doesn’t make sense versus I’m like an internal  optimist. I want, I want everybody to win. I want to, want to, I want to hire everybody. I want to like everybody, you know, that whole thing. then the other thing that  hasn’t really been said,  but the importance of the interaction effect amongst teammates, employees. We did that at P and G.

 

25:38

We have what we call, the recruit would meet with several people from the team and we would call them informal, like, don’t know, project talks or whatnot, but it was really for that person on the team to assess whether or not, yeah, can you talk to this person? This person seemed interesting. Do you think this could be a good member in your team? So we drove a lot of that interaction as well, just to try to get that sense outside of like a formal interview process.

 

26:04

And it  ends up being a win for everybody because this is much more about the personality behind the eyes than it is anything else on the outside. It really is the brain, the personality,  the attitude, the whole thing.  then there’s shared values  amongst an organization, every organization. But then it’s not really an organization if there’s no shared values. And then people want to be part of something that  they kind of see themselves as being part of and they can contribute.

 

26:32

And so think getting that, but that’s not  easy. I mean, I’ve made so many  mistakes and I feel badly over the course of time and I feel really badly. It could also just be  not a bad attitude, right? But we have a umbrella concept  of our core principles. It’s the umbrella that everything sits beneath. It’s called focus on what matters most. And then sort of implied in that is focus when you can control.

 

27:01

If you really break that down,  you can end up having like backdoor meetings or politics, because you’re not focusing on matters most, right? Because if you establish the priorities that matter most, then you’re not doing any of that stuff that doesn’t matter.  And not everybody buys in, not everybody can get the bullseye on the dartboard of that concept. can, sometimes there are one or two rings outside and that’s almost just too far to really make it here. Like to make it here,  you really have to be either on the bullseye,

 

27:31

or if you’re on the fringe, you’re not gonna be as successful as somebody who’s on the bullseye that knows exactly what that means and they can just focus on those things that matter most. Yeah, well, I think  the balance and  I can hear it as you’re talking of how tough all of this gets, but even in the beginning when we talked about the tenuous balance of the hard charger and the caring nature, and to me, that really is the bullseye crux.

 

27:57

And I think having the emotional intelligence to be able to flex those things in proper proportions as you’re going through exercises to solve problems,  because we are totally with you. mean, we talk to clients all the time about somebody looking really great from that achievement basis, right? They’ve accomplished all these things. They do really well in the job and all of that. And then having this culture piece  fall away. And what you said about the

 

28:26

on the best day,  you identify it quickly and then hopefully you can kindly help them exit.  On other days,  it can really erode culture because too much emphasis is placed on that achievement basis instead of that balance of kindness and culture.  And I really love what you said about, I’m not saying I have the right culture,  but I think it’s the intentionality by which you’ve made that decision, which we’ve been talking about all along. And the other piece is you do walk the talk.

 

28:57

and you  respect people’s time as part of it. So the example of, know, we don’t bring someone in until we’re pretty sure that they’re gonna be a fit,  says to the team, I’m not gonna waste your time meeting with a whole bunch of people because that’s not the problem you’re supposed to be solving today. You’re supposed to be working with the clients and all of those things, right? However, when you bring someone in,  I’m sure people are like, oh, okay, so this is worth my time. Those people that are in the bullseye are like, yes, this is what I need to focus on now because we found someone  that fits within that.

 

29:26

And so I think it just says so much about how intentional it is  and also  how clear it is for people so that they have what we would call guardrails of how to operate so that there is a balance of we get a lot done, but where we don’t stomp on each other while we’re doing it. Yeah. The intentionality part is spot on. I’ve also seen amongst the team, and this is where you have to be very, careful.

 

29:54

especially as you’re bringing in as the company grows, you’re bringing in more experts. then, right. our team knows they’re very young. So I’ve trained most like a lot of these folks, their first job out of college, and they only know our way of doing things. And we have great longevity with these young folks who are now in their late twenties and thirties and everything. And, then if you bring someone in and that person, so just imagine, right, you bring them in and

 

30:21

those people are relying on them to sort of get a job done. Either they start saying weird stuff or it’s not really making sense. They’re not really executing. What ends up happening is the worst is then those people kind of retreat from giving them work and working with them on a project and they kind of and then then all of a you’re like, oh man,  you’ve lost all trust or belief that well,  I’ll give  him one more shot or whatever. That that’s another  area, right? Or

 

30:50

Like we just have brought in three, we’ve created a whole research team, a news team, and a data, just head of data, very experienced people, all total workers, you know, get it done. Then if you have the opposite of that, where it’s like 10, 100 X, and then everyone now wins because this person comes in and they can solve problems, they can get it done, they get the culture immediately, they’re into speed, the whole thing. Then all of you’re like a kid in a candy store. Now you’re like, oh my goodness, right? And then they’re loving it because

 

31:18

There’s no bureaucracy, they’re kind of the new one on board. They’re testing us to see how we’re going to react to certain requests for things.  I’m all in, let’s go. I’m all in, let’s go.  Good. Right, because  they’ve been so spot on, it’s frightening. So then if you get the opposite effect of that, it’s like so freeing, it’s crazy.

 

31:39

Yeah. And I would be remiss if I didn’t dig in a little bit because a lot of people are probably saying, oh yeah, that works really well with  more mature employees or employees who’ve had more experience, who understand  culture or whatever might be going on in their heads. But I think what’s really interesting is that you have a very high population of younger employees.  And we talked and we introduced this episode as being one of the big dilemmas that a lot of our clients are having is

 

32:09

what they’re calling generational gap issues, where it’s like, oh, well, we just don’t have the same values and we don’t want the same things. So therefore these younger kids are impossible to manage. So I love if you could speak a little bit to how you’ve cracked that code, even in the midst of having a very unconventional culture, which at first, like, listen, maybe like, oh, that doesn’t feel like a culture, maybe Gen Zers or millennials or  any of this like.

 

32:36

these new younger people coming up are going to really appreciate.  Both my sons and my daughter, both my sons played college lacrosse, one still playing.  And so I’ve gotten to know all their friends very, very well. And when we started the business, I hired a lot of lacrosse players who played at the Division one level at really good schools.  And what you realize over time is that the basic characteristics  of from seventh grade in middle school all the way through senior year in college.

 

33:04

the resilience to make it all the way through to be basically told, you you suck for 11 years straight and the coaches are amazing, but that’s just, that’s just the nature of the beast. If you will, that’s that sport. It’s kind of the coaches against the team. Probably the coaches have criticized me for saying this, but at the end of the day, what they’ve done for these kids, I said to the kids, I you need to thank these coaches for the rest of your life.  Truly thank them because they gave you something in your DNA that is the highest quality.

 

33:34

characteristics. I’m not saying it’s only lacrosse that of course it’s other sports you can get this from, but the level of resilience, teamwork, you no emotions around because mostly hire them in a business development sales role is unbelievable. And they’re just great teammates. And they want to work hard. And now they’re having a leader that actually has insane compassion for them because they’re sending emails, know, cold emails. And so a large majority of the 65 people

 

34:01

are in that sales capacity role, let’s say, you know, half and they all, I just, it just, it just easier for me to take someone who played that division one sport specifically lacrosse than to risk really anything else because that’s the most important, you know, that’s the gas and the engine. You know, if I don’t have, if there’s turnover there or it’s not working or we’re having to like manage people or motivate them, we would not have a business. So we just dedicated to hiring the certain type, this personality type.

 

34:31

It came from that environment and their unbelievable teammates, their gentlemen, most of these coaches hold those players to standards way higher than the average student. Meaning I know that most of the boys don’t travel if they’re not wearing a suit and tie. Um, there’s just a way of being that around being a gentleman and respectful and the coaches care about the afterlife. So they really prepare them for life. And so we just don’t compromise on that. And they’re, you know, I’m very close to them all. They’re awesome. They’re fun to be around. It’s fun to watch them.

 

35:01

And you just, there’s just no tears. You know what I mean? It’s just like, they’re all about business. Let’s go get it done. Let’s smile. Let’s work out. Let’s have fun. But they are about getting the job done. I love that so much. And I also love the way in which you’re very unapologetic about having found it and then cultivating it. Because I think what you have found is the opposite of what Ann set up  as the sort of issue, right? With this generation.  But I think it,  really does come down to

 

35:30

the desire to quote unquote win whatever that looks like. But the resilience piece is so huge.  And  I want everybody that’s listening to hear that piece because as we run into these challenges with our clients, we also talk to them about how do you, for example, give them questions and interviews and you want them to light up when you say you’re gonna have autonomy and be able to  own your path and all of those things, not sort of.

 

35:58

And you can see it, right? You can see it when you go through these interviews of how do they react to those questions or  we’ll say things like, you know, give them this assignment that would be a real  assignment that they might get early on in the job and the role that they’re going to be in and see how they do and how they think critically and how they’re able to work through that.  And I think resiliency is really at  the foundation  of so much of these  things around finding those right people because

 

36:26

I think the willingness to work so hard at whether it’s lacrosse or other sports, like you said, or whatever, you found that ideal profile. But it’s not necessarily just that it’s because they played lacrosse, it’s because of the diligence by which they learned all of these fundamental life skills  and the tenacity to keep coming back every time after a sales call doesn’t go their way or they, you all of that. And then also on top of all of that, to lean into each other as part of it,

 

36:55

I think is huge.  And so much of what we talk about is making sure that when you go to hire people,  you’re not just thinking about the experience and you’re not thinking against them in terms of what demographic they fall into, but you really have a psychographic idea of who they are. And I have to imagine that that’s why when they walk into your office, you can almost look at them  and know. And you were careful to say it’s not about  outward appearance and all of that, but that is part of it, right?

 

37:24

They have a personal brand and a presence about them that when you see them, you just know, especially after doing it all this time, that that person is or is not what is part of the culture of your organization. Yeah. And this is the business. Like we’ve hired, obviously, a lot of people in non-business development roles that didn’t play a college of the cross and they’ve been marvelously successful. So  I don’t over lean into this, but there’s another thing about that persona that doesn’t ever get talked about. If the theory of life and it’s a double theory.

 

37:54

So  one, you’re the average of the five people you hang out with the most.  So think about that. Right. And then Harvard did a study and they found a cellular transfer. You actually transfer cells. That’s why people repeat what you say. You know what I mean? It’s like they will say the same thing you’re saying because like you literally transfer cells. So they’ve been hanging out with the most elite athletes in their domain for a very, very long period of time. So their personal friend group, if you will.

 

38:22

are all playing at the highest level, right? And getting along and are great teammates and are super for each other and will kill to be a great teammate. They’ll also try to kill them to get on the field and take their spot. But when they get ready. So if you think about it, it’s like that friend group, because I look at my oldest son, both my sons have phenomenal high school and college friend groups and really amazing people that, you and they don’t suffer any fools. You know what mean? They want to certain people they want to hang out with. You know what I mean? And just that are

 

38:52

sort of get it, if you will. Well, these guys have been hanging out with  10s,  20s,  30s, these teams are 50 plus people, all these super high quality people that they’ve literally just, there’s no other place they can go other than  to try to become more more exceptional. then also the little technique that we’ve used,  which I say it’s not a technique, but we were just trying to create a situation where these athletes, men and women go from one locker room, can you send them into another locker room at work?

 

39:22

that’s a job work versus another sport. And if you think about that for a minute, right, where athletes can struggle is that if okay, yeah, I got a great job, but I’m working from home, you know what I mean? And I’m 22. And I’m used to being in the locker room. I’m used to being, you know what mean? I’m used to like going over training. And so we try to create without even really giving it much thought is kind of simple. We just tried to create a similar atmosphere to know, I don’t mean a locker room, like no one talks like you’re in a locker room. That’s not even close to permissible.

 

39:51

And I mean that there’s no,  there’s no joke. qualified that.  Right. There’s no joke. April wouldn’t work there then. We wouldn’t be able to handle that. If you can’t talk like you’re in a locker room.  Yeah. And if you came into our office on the fourth floor, you’d say, see equal men and women,  everyone, know, co-mingling, hanging out, chatting, doing the whole thing. So there’s no,  none of that locker room talk. But what I meant is just the concept of what do people miss most about sports? And they’ll go tell you it’s like not playing.

 

40:20

He goes, was the times in the locker room laughing with each other, cracking jokes, you know, just having fun. And we tried to recreate that  universally,  not, just for that group. mean, universally where it feels very warm, not giving up the hard charging, but very warm, kind, fun, having a blast. And then, uh, you know, trying to create the single greatest product and service you can for your customers.  think this is, mean, absolutely brilliant. And I, I’m going to try to like, kind of weave a path here because there’s so much.

 

40:49

wonderful things that being said and I want to kind of connect the dots for those who are listening. I mean,  they’re really at the core of this is  what does my business need  from a culture and a people standpoint and who do I want to work with? And based on that, you can really define the  call it the characteristics or the modes of behavior or the as you  distilled them down into Dakota isms. Like what is this place going to be like?

 

41:17

in order to work here and how are we going to be successful as a business? Did you have to work hand in hand? I we can’t have a really fun place to work and not be able to make money and we can’t have a very serious business atmosphere and  nobody likes to work there, right? So they have to work harmoniously and synonymously together. But then it’s like, OK,  who are those people? How do I define those people? How do I who already has those characteristics? Because as Tony Robinson successfully includes.

 

41:44

So go to where those people already exist and try to find the people who have the same makeup, the same values, the same motivations as I want within this business and the company. And I’m gonna go after that. And I think even being so specific and saying,  want lacrosse players or I want the vision of one athlete is a very fantastic way to start to establish the profiles of who is going to be successful here. Who do we actually want here?  Because the flip side of this,

 

42:13

is, and I love for you to comment on this, Guy, is like lot of people will think they can fix people, right? They’ll hire what they think is right from like an experience or a skill level. And they’re like, oh, once they get in here, we’re going to assimilate them in. We’re going to fix them.  I’m going to nurture them and coach them and mentor them up. And then they realize it’s not working as well as they were hoping it was going to work.

 

42:35

And then they wonder why the person’s not motivated. The person isn’t performing well, which at that point, me and April, like, okay, then you have to kind of play the other side of that was like, okay, find their currency, you try to motivate them with that currency. But then at that point, you’re going outside the culture in order to fix something that shouldn’t have been fixed before, or needed to be fixed if you had hired the right people. So I’d love if you could speak a little bit to that. Yeah, you basically hit the nail on the head. We’re not hiring divisional lacrosse players to hire divisional lacrosse players.

 

43:05

We need to grow the business and in order to grow the business, we need to send cold emails. And by sending cold emails, you’re going to get one or two out of 25, maybe that you’re going to, they’re going to respond to you and take a meeting. So that means tons of rejection and no one went to college to come out of college to send 25 emails a day and have one to two. But if we get those two, I love that. Okay. If we don’t get those two out of 25, we do not have a business.

 

43:34

So it’s almost like I know I know you’re laughing and I’m laughing too, but just but if you take it down to like the most serious level,  there’s no business.  There’s no business  without that person doing that job. And that’s why I celebrate it. That’s why I’m so supportive of them. That’s why we try to advance them as quickly as we possibly can, you know, into a more of a, you know, face to face sales role after 12 to 18 months, because it is I mean, you’re asking someone to come in and get rejected all day long.

 

44:02

all day long. so I’m the one giving the group hug, the love, the whole thing to make sure they know that. But how many people and we can’t have a lot of turnover because if you’re thinking about serving the customer, but back to like, why do I exist? I exist for one reason. I want to be able to get up every morning. That’s how I say it. I want to get up every morning and be able to be as creative as I can possibly be to serve our customers and our teammates first. They’re one A and one B our customers. If I don’t have the opportunity to serve, I’m not going to be happy.

 

44:31

I love serving our customers, creating great products, solving their problems,  making their  work life easier.  All kind of one of the same concept. Now in order to do that, we have to put certain things in place to make that happen. And one thing we need is we need first time demos and re-engage demos set up with our target customer every single day, consistently, day in and day out, can’t take a day off. Well, who have to hire  to execute  on that?

 

44:59

Right for everybody like if the BDR stops booking meetings, everyone’s out like not just them, not just me, everyone loses. And so but I’m not going to risk it on that. Like you said unapologetically a while ago, that’s 100 % the truth.  And it’s just I’ve just seen we’re asking them to do  the most difficult job, which is cold outreach, pure, never spoken to before.  You know, don’t ever call me again.  And if you take that personally, and that’s your style now.

 

45:28

I don’t know you know College of the Cross,  but you get your face ripped off. You you make a bad play, the coach in front of your 50 best friends in the, in the film room and they redo the film there and  your face is fully ripped off your skull. And so  by the time they get out of college,  someone doesn’t get back in an email. I’m like, Hey, Johnny, how does that affect you? He’s like, what? That person not responding to email. He goes, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

45:55

I said exactly, exactly. It’s nothing. What I just went through and the whole thing, is  can of corn. And then we really set them up as quickly as we can to have  success after that. But then all of you have that nucleus who exude  super positive energy. Fun to be around, just very kind of stoic in their own way because they’re total grinders. No tears, no apologies, none of that.

 

46:22

never need to be motivated. Goodness gracious, never need to be motivated. Really never. I don’t know if I’ve ever sat a BDR down to have a conversation about performance. They’ve all just stepped into the role and got her done. So yeah, so I guess ability to serve, and then you need to surround yourself with a team that allows you to serve. Right. And it’s a blast to be able to do that. Well, and I think the other piece that

 

46:45

I want people to hear as well is you’re very clear, yes, on the expectations, but also the reality of the situation you’re putting them in. And so you’re smart to find the right people to sit in those roles. But then you said, I’m the cheerleader, I’m the heart behind it. So you’re also helping them understand that one to two out of 25 is a big win. And also that there would be no organization if they wouldn’t do this job. Right. So you are back to the

 

47:15

very beginning when you were talking about treating them like adults and not children.  You’re doing that in this way and you’re showing them that this is the business we’re in. This is what needs to be done to make this business really thrive. And the rest of us rely on this beady role to do this. But I also know that while you may have thick skin, it is the reality that there aren’t a lot of people that could sit in your chair and do this job day in and day out. And we appreciate you for that and we see you for that.

 

47:43

Because I think a lot of the mistakes with those types of sales rules also is it’s the opposite side of pressure where it is like  beat down.  You know, it’s all about the numbers. You didn’t get in 52 calls today. What’s wrong with you? How come you haven’t closed this number? All of that kind of stuff.  And then that turnover wheel just, you know, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I think there’s also the balance of that  in the culture, the team structure, the support top down from you, all the things we’ve talked about from this episode, but they feel.

 

48:12

very supportive and like they’re part of something bigger, not like the pressure of if I don’t get this exactly right, then I’m going to be fired, for example. Yeah, you need to, we need to take the last minute and a half and you need to cut that out and send it to every single one of your clients. That was perfectly said. Yeah. Yeah, that was perfectly said. And by the way, yeah, that, and we all know that leadership style, the beat down, most people don’t get so excited about

 

48:42

getting rejected all day long. And so if you find a cohort that can do that, and then you support them, and then you really make it all about them, and they know that, and then you give them the upward mobility, so then they can get face client facing, they can get on Zoom calls, they can be doing demos of the software. Then they’re starting to feel it. We do 30 Dakota Cocktails events a year. I send all the BDRs there, they get to interact with people. And so you give them, this is the future looks like. I know you’re doing the yeoman’s work right now. But I also say to them too,

 

49:12

I just want you to know, right, your coaches, you need to thank them for the rest of your life. And I’m literally giving you, we are giving you the single greatest sales DNA that you could possibly have for the first 18 months of your career. It’ll never leave your body. You’ll never know anything different. Because you’re going to see what everyone else does, and you’re not going to believe it. Because you’re playing at the top of the level here. You go to some other organization, they’re like, what do mean you send 25 emails? I might send like three a day. And they’re like, what?

 

49:37

So  I know also and I know it in my heart of hearts that we are giving them a gift in terms of the training we’re giving them. So that’s a good part too, but that doesn’t take away from the emotion, the rejection, all that. Which I think is a really  good segue into one of the last points I want to get to before we  wrap this up and maybe get to some rapid fire questions is there is times when your team does not perform or they don’t behave according to

 

50:06

the way that you would like to or according to the culture, according to the Dakota isms. How do you handle holding people accountable? How do you handle consequences in this way, knowing that you’re still trying to uphold everything that you guys just talked about, which is  the support system,  the  making people feel like they have that person behind them that is rooting for them. How do you handle the consequences and the accountability piece on the other side of that?

 

50:35

So this is where kind versus nice comes into play. You can’t be nice.  and kind, being kind is telling people sometimes, now, we’re not here to judge or demean, right? That’s not a leading strategy is, but sometimes there are absolute times where I have to take the gloves off and it’s like, look, I’m not gonna do it on a broad based thing. I don’t send all company beat down emails, anything like that. It’s never like that.

 

51:03

But when there are absolutely tough conversations that I have, and I’m like, Look, you know how much I love you, right? But  look, look at what’s going on right now. Like, are you looking at how I’m looking at it? Right? So I try to get in their shoes to  have them see it how I’m seeing it. Like,  like, are you kidding me?  And it’s,  in my opinion, my own personal style, I think it’s really important that everyone knows what good looks like. And you don’t compromise on what good looks like. And if I’m to be in a situation, and that’s

 

51:33

you know, not happening. And it’s like, guys,  am I missing something?  Like, I love you, but like, this is not right.  And like, what are we not seeing here? And that is absolutely part of coaching, where you do have to have  very tough love, and you have to be direct. And you can’t compromise on the principles. And you can’t compromise on what good looks like. That’s how I reference it, what good looks like. And then what ends up happening is they get trained on what good looks like. And then they don’t they see it the next time. They’re like, yeah, this will never work.

 

52:02

or this is  right. But if you’re not giving that feedback, but  and sometimes I have to say, look, you know, I’m so close to these guys, but it’s like, I’m not judging you. I love you as a person. But it’s like, dude, like, really? Like, okay, I gotcha. I see what you’re saying. Okay, good.  It’s like no judgment. Move on. Not here to like,  shame you.  Right. But it’s like, look, I do have to point out you’re attacking this this way.  And I’m old enough to know, I know where you’re going.

 

52:31

So it’s have a conversation that it happens more times than not. And so you really have to deftly enroll people in they’re like, okay, okay, okay. And then like I, so our new head of data started  and the guy that did conch that did the data has done an exceptional job. Uh, he came with no knowledge of how to do data. He led our data team for the past two years. And I’m so proud of him. tell him that every single day, but we just brought in a hall of Famer, Kizer, Kizer’s unbelievable in the whole thing.

 

53:00

So I opened up one of our data meetings and said, look, I have to have a sort of question. We have to rethink how we’re thinking about this. So I said, we need to have an abundance mentality around data collection. Like anything can be collected at any time, just make the request. Whereas before it’s like, well, if we’re to do that, we’re not going to able to do this. The prioritization here, we’re going to have to take this whole team off that. And that’s going to slow down if we don’t do this. That was kind of the deal. Well, with Kizzer, he’s building a whole team. That’s not going to be the deal anymore.

 

53:29

So I said, we need a full mental reset on abundance, that anything’s possible at any time. We’re not going to give any pushback. Well, Conch, of course, is I’m all in, I’m all in. Well, 10 minutes later, he goes in and he goes, Conch. And he starts in, I go, Conch. He goes, what? said, abundance. goes, yeah, I said, Conch, seriously, what are we just talking about? He pauses, he starts laughing. goes, I got it. Old mindset, old mindset. I’m like, old mindset.

 

53:57

And you don’t even he caught himself. He caught himself and I didn’t share. He knew he’s like because he’s already seeing. I told him this from the beginning. I said, Kizer is going to make you so much better. But this is a mental thing, right? It’s just a mental mindset that we have to do the switch that  you ask. Like you got that. That’s a really good example of a really difficult time where you just sometimes you have to say, yesterday we were not abundance mindset  on how that we could collect anything at any time.  No request is too much.

 

54:27

I was like, what we’ve never done. This would have to move. It would stop doing this to do this. You know, that was the whole thing is like, kids are on board. We’re building on a team where he’s from Pakistan. So we’re gonna have abundance. And that now, you know, even kind of like, okay, just gonna take me a little while. Gee, I gotta sit. That’s no problem. Just want to point it out. Give you the distinction, the distinction of what good looks like. Good now looks like abundance. No more of you know, not not abundant. So yeah, and

 

54:56

you just have to do it with a little humor, some fun never ever teasing or demeaning or making somebody feel badly. But you do have to address the good old, you know, pink, I want to say pink elephant in the room, or instead of it just sitting there, you just got to address it immediately. And then always make it in their best interest. Always tell them, look, what I’m saying is an 100 % your best interest. And here’s how you’re going to win from changing the way you think or changing the way we’re doing things.

 

55:24

I love it. think that’s a really good way to wrap up this episode.  And before we head in and let you  give us any final thoughts, are you open to some rapid fire questions? Sure, sure. All right. If you could ask one person one question, who would you ask and what would the question be? Wow.  Some of the like Michael Jordan Tiger Woods, probably two most inspirational  athletes that I’ve kind of been around a golfer, I’m not a basketball player, but just their whole attitude towards

 

55:52

competition or probably just like, what was your mental attitude going into any big game and how did you apply it to overcome any fears? I love it. All right. If you could make one shift on the Eagles, you make one change. What would it be and why this was not on the list prior to the episode? My goodness. I mean, I still want to lose any of our, we might’ve just lost the linebacker.

 

56:22

I mean, I love our defense. Obviously we love the offense. We love our defense. I’m sort of in love with those guys. So in love with their attitude and the whole thing, there’s probably nothing I would do to change that team. I’d leave it, leave it to how we and the pros to  figure that one out. Oh, well, if I could ask myself the question for the Cowboys, I’d ask the owner to fire the GM.  We’ve known that for a long time.  It’s my favorite meme. It never gets old. Right.

 

56:51

Okay, so the last one, what are you reading right now or what are you listening to? Well, I’ve gotten really into these longevity podcasters, know, Dr. Hyman and the Tia and human and I’m just, yeah, I’m just really so fat. I’m 58 and you know, we’re getting, know, just all the stuff they talk about. It just debunks so many sort of myths and makes you a little sad. But you know, it’s really those.

 

57:18

Those they’re really fascinating and they’re funny and they’re really educational and it’s been great because I attend a workout every morning and I just put on one of those podcasts and so I get a lot of time in on the podcast just during a workout and it’s really fun. That’s great. All right. Well, Guy, this has been wonderful. Why don’t you wrap it up? Anything that we may have missed or anything you want to make sure that our listeners take away and then tell people where to find you. And then also I know you have a book, so feel free to plug the book.

 

57:48

Well, first off, I’d say any of these listeners who were thinking about hiring a culture coach, I would definitely hire these two because they’re insane and they get it like you have no idea. So that’s first and foremost. Don’t worry about me. Just hire them and we’ll have a successful podcast. And you can find me at geekaustin.com or if you want to sign copy of my book, just email me at gee at dakota.com and I’ll send you a signed copy. So I would love to send anyone who wants one. Oh, that’s wonderful.

 

58:16

And with that, we encourage you to take at least one powerful insight you’ve heard and put into practice. Remember, Strategic Counsel is only effective if you put it into action.  Did we spark something with this episode that you want to talk about further?  Reach out to us through our website, ForthRight-People.com.  We can help you customize what you have heard to move your business  and make sure to follow or subscribe to Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast platform!