How to Create a Digital Experience That Connects with Your Audience with Zack Sugarman, SUPERPLASTIC: Show Notes & Transcript

Post | Jan 28, 2025

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

In this episode of Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business, we’re talking digital experiences with Zack Sugarman. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review!

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***Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business*: How to Create a Digital Experience That Connects with Your Audience with Zack Sugarman, SUPERPLASTIC**

What’s the key to breaking through and capturing attention? Finding new and unexpected places to connect with your audience. One of the most fascinating ways to do this is to create an experiential digital experience. We wanted you to learn from someone who’s doing exactly that, so we welcomed on Zack Sugarman, the Chief Strategy Officer (CSO) of SUPERPLASTIC. They’re the world’s top creator of animated celebs, vinyl toys, and digital goods. You have to check out Janky & Guggimon, DOPEAMEME, and AREA15 to believe it. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

How to capture attention and connect with your audiences?
What is accomplished by digitizing the collector’s experience?
How does SUPERPLASTIC partner with other brands (like Gucci)?
What’s the creative process of bringing a digital experience to life?
How can digital collectors participate in community?

And as always, if you need help in building your Strategic Counsel, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at: ForthRight-People.com.

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:

Show Notes

How to Create a Digital Experience That Connects with Your Audience with Zack Sugarman, SUPERPLASTIC
- [0:29] Welcome to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business
- [00:59] What is the key way of breaking through and capturing attention by finding new and unexpected places to connect with your audiences?
- [3:20] What is Zack’s professional journey?
- [6:51] The rise of NFTs (Non-Fungible Tokens) during early COVID
- [8:43] Where else do your fans like to do things?
- [9:09] What is the next level of blending digital and physical reality?
- [10:34] What is the DOPEAMEME experience?
- [13:52] Why take physical collectibles and make them digital? What are you trying to accomplish?
- [16:29] How can digital collectors show off and participate in community?
- [21:04] Is there a “4th sandbox” to engage fans even more?
- [22:00] How does Zack make decisions about when to pivot?
- [28:55] What other brands engage with SUPERPLASTIC?
- [34:42] How does SUPERPLASTIC maintain integrity with brand partners?
- [39:08] What leads the initial excitement of the creative process? What is the process of bringing these to life?
- [42:33] What’s the best way to engage and monetize our various communities?
- [46:37] The DOPEAMEME Institute for Pleasure Research
- [50:35] How do you make a digital experience?
- [55:20] Where can people learn more about Zack’s work?
- Quick-Fire Questions
- [56:07] What is your all time favorite collectible?
- [56:30] Where’s your favorite place you’ve ever been?
- [56:52] If you were on The Amazing Race, what would you excel at?
- [57:36] If you were going to be a character, what would your name be?
- [58:30] Make sure to follow Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast spot and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts
- [58:30] Learn more at ForthRight-People.com and connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and Linke dIn

What is Strategic Counsel?

Thanks for listening Strategic Counsel. Get in touch here to become more strategic.

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:01
Welcome to the Strategic Counsel by Forthright Business podcast. If you’re looking for honest, direct, and unconventional conversations on how to successfully lead and operate in business, you are in the right place. In our discussions, we push on the status quo and traditional modes of thinking to reveal a fresh perspective. This unlocks opportunity for you, your team, and your business. Now let’s get to it. Welcome to the Strategic Council podcast.

00:31
I am Anne Candido. And I am April Martini. And for today’s episode, we’re going to take a big topic of creating a digital experience that connects with your audience and make it smaller, meaning more manageable for all of you that are listening. As we’ve discussed on this podcast many times before, people are being bombarded with messages and experiences all over the place to the point that you’re often competing much more broadly than with your direct competitive set or even within your landscape.

00:59
So what is the key way of breaking through and capturing attention by finding new and unexpected places to connect with your audiences? Yes, and with this create an experiential digital experience. And I know that sounds redundant, but it’s not and you’re gonna find out why. And this may feel very pie in the sky, but we’re gonna make it very tangible today because…

01:20
With so many people getting their first and sometimes only experience of a brand or business online, the experience needs to be intentionally cultivated to win their hearts and minds. So when you do this, you win. Yes, to all of that. And because of this and because it’s such a big topic, we have a special guest joining us today, someone who is consistently elevating the digital immersive experience for his audiences by seeking them out where they are and entering new and unexpected spaces with them. And that is Zach Sugerman of Super Plastic.

01:50
Welcome, Zack. Please introduce yourself and give the listeners a little bit of your story. Yeah, hi, April. Hi, and so glad to be here with you guys and happy 2025. What a very fun way to start the new year. I’m the Chief Strategy Officer here at SUPERPLASTIC. I’ve had a very fun career getting here. Big background in digital and sports entertainment, kind of always around really engaging and in monetizing communities.

02:20
Did about 20 years at Wasserman Media Group. So a lot working with sports teams and leagues and federations on how they engage their fans from digital to immersive and content. And then it had been a lot in kind of the startup space the last few years, um, from AI lead generation at demand to now it’s super plastic, which is very, very fun in the collectible space.

02:42
We do a lot of stuff that we’ll talk about today from vinyl art figures to animated content. And then we just opened a full blown immersive experiential permanent installation in Las Vegas, in area 15 that I’m very excited to dive into with you guys today. Yes. So as you guys heard, lots and lots of background in this and some overlap with Anne in the sports space with her PNG experience. But I think today the focus really on the collectible space is really exciting.

03:12
We could probably talk for hours, quite frankly, Zach, but this is one that I think Anne and I really connected to because it’s something that is a bit unexpected and you guys continue to really push the needle. So I would love for you to start with the journey, if you will, right? So the Funko Pop characters, how that transitioned into online space, how you knew when there was time to move to the next thing, kind of give us the timeline, if you will, and then we’ll kind of jump into different parts of the journey.

03:40
Super Plastic was founded by Paul Budnitz, who was the founder of Kidrobot. So the OG maker of the three inch vinyl dunny toys. I mean, that’s what Kidrobot’s known for. Our founder, Paul Budnitz, was the genius behind that and the creation of it. So with Super Plastic, you know, in 2018, when we founded the company, there were some similarities that he brought over and, you know, stuff learned from the dunnies and the Kidrobot. And…

04:07
You know, how to partner with awesome artists and brands and the licensing game to kind of do those collaborations. But what he did kind of when launching super plastic and new was really kind of build out digital IP around characters. So we made a character universe, um, define with kind of names and back stories and our two main characters are janky and googie mom. We don’t assign specific animals to them, but

04:35
Janky kind of looks like a cat and Googie Mon kind of looks like a bunny, but they’re really best friends and they are just trying to climb social clout and the social status ladder. So they do a lot of pranks. They do a lot of get rich schemes. They like to live on the edge. They have a backstory in New York and graffiti tag and kind of street hype lifestyle. So there’s this whole origin story. And that was when Paul helped create super plastic. It was kind of bringing that story to life.

05:05
through figures. So Janki and Gugi Mondan had that story, continued to make awesome vinyl art figures based off of those character molds. And then also he really wanted to kind of align with local artists and kind of build out this universe more. So in 2018, the timing was great to kind of launch, you know, our vinyl art figures in conjunction with NFTs. So there were really elaborate, amazing art NFTs.

05:34
that were also kind of part of our story and part of what consumers can interact and purchase from super plastic. And those NFTs were gorgeous from an art standpoint, but then also they had corresponding benefits, like a lot of the NFT projects in terms of holding them and reselling them. And so that was fantastic. And in 2018,

05:55
And really that was the start of it, having this backstory, having kind of this roadmap on new technology, blockchain, NFTs that people could interact and engage with, and then still just have these amazing, amazing art figures and continue to align with interesting talent with interesting brands. So, you know, in 2018, 2019, 2020, we’re talking higher end fashion brands, Super Plastics partnered with Gucci to kind of release these amazing porcelain figures.

06:23
partner with Mercedes around building them and animated character, and then also creating a wooden toy based on that character. We partnered with Tommy Hilfiger to have our animated characters, Jake and Googie Mon, appear physically at a fashion show. So there were all these kind of connections. That’s where it started. Also around 2019, 2020, they timed it right for the NFTs. There was a giant boom right around COVID, right? So…

06:51
strictly just the monetary value. So NFTs, if any listeners are unfamiliar, we’re talking about non-fungible really tokens that were one of one art piece. So similar to our collectible physical figure, there now was this collectible from a digital space. Only you could have that NFT, you could trade it, you could try to sell it on the secondary market. So when we launched, we were very much in that space. The NFT program did tremendously well.

07:19
generated multiple millions of dollars in revenue, active trading, and then several NFT projects kind of got caught and the NFT boom kind of went into a little bit of bust where the community participatory nature of the NFTs continued where people engaged in the part of that community, but in terms of the buying and reselling on the secondary market and generating millions of revenue, that went away.

07:48
And that went away right across the industry. So, you know, come 2021, as that starts to go down in 2022, we have to look at the company and we’re like, all right, we have these amazing characters in J.K. and Goodymon. We have a very healthy vinyl art toy market and a consumer base. Yes, we’ve done really great with these NFTs, but these millions of dollars are gone and they’re probably not coming back. So what can we take advantage of knowing where we excel?

08:18
and we excel and really animated character or making really cool by our figures. So how can we really focus on those, but also look at what’s next in terms of how we can engage and grow our fan base. And that’s where kind of digital and experience popped because really right when, when NFTs went away while yes, that technology is still there.

08:43
The monetary value is not, but people still love engaging that community. They love collecting. They love talking about things. So we started to look at a lot of our data points to see like where else, you know, do, do our fans like to do things? Um, what has they then diagram overlap on the collectible market? And so for us, what we saw was continuing to do more animated content that people loved engaging with putting our characters in places that

09:09
people love doing things that were outside of superplastic. So like one of those we figured out was Fortnite. So our characters have been skins, you know, in the Lego, in Fortnite and Lego Fortnite. We licensed our character IP to Epic Games. We also then built and launched our own Fortnite map because we had so many fans that were playing in Fortnite. They wanted to play as our characters engaged in the world. So we did that. So then once we have kind of this gaming setup, we’re like, all right, what is kind of really that next level of blending the digital and physical reality?

09:37
you know, of toys and our characters. And just looking across the industry and looking at trends and then also talking to our own consumers. I mean, Immersive Experiential has been booming over the last five years. You have big names like Meow Wolf and Omega Mart, and you have the opening of this giant immersive district called Area 15 in Las Vegas, right before COVID. We got synced up with Area 15, they’re a partner of ours.

10:05
And through a lot of due diligence, found that there was a big appetite for a new type of immersive experience. One that may be even based around some IP, but then also for people that don’t know the IP, they could still have fun, just in terms of what we’re putting them through. And so thinking that through a little more and we can break into what our experience is, we ended up opening last month, the 8,000 square foot physical experience at Area 15, that is called dopamine and all.

10:34
We can talk about what that means in a second. I love that name so much. Right? And so that, we’re a month into it. So we basically, after the ZNFT Ravnate Woodway, we are now coming in, let’s do more in the immersive experiential. This is a ticketed experience, right? You pay for tickets, a 30 to 40 minute experience, you’re up to groups, eight can go through it. Of course, everything’s made for.

10:58
social media, it’s made for the Instagram or TikTok, a lot of kind of photo moments, video moments for yourself, a lot of interactivity with friends. And again, I want to get into the specific elements of it because it’s really fun. But that’s like where we’re at and where we’re going. So tomorrow I get to go out to Vegas for CES and basically just take advantage of all the people in town, brands, potential partners otherwise, and get them to check out dopamine and talk them through what we have. Yeah, participate in it.

11:25
see what other brand collaborations we can do, show off some more awesome vinyl art figures. And so where we’re at moving forward, and then I’ll stop is like, we’ve gone from the traditional vinyl art figure company, like a Cause or Bear Brick, a Funko Pop, a Kit Robot, we still do that. But the way I talk about Superclass, but we talk about it moving forward, is we’re really like a demented Disney, or degenerate Disney, where in the analogy, they’re like three buckets, where we operate like Disney does. There’s…

11:54
First and foremost, the IP, and that’s mainly digital IP. They have Mickey and Minnie in a bunch of friends. We have J. King Doogie Mon in a bunch of friends. We’re doing a lot of animated content. We have video games. We’re looking at other manifestations of that IP. The second thing Disney does is they make a lot of merchandise, so do we. Ours has been historically these amazing vinyl art figures, but we’re starting to explore more from an apparel side of things.

12:20
Um, last month we actually released a home decor piece of bookends. So really nice kind of using our figures, but holding up books that you would put on a bookshelf. So kind of getting into that space. We’re continuing to do more in merch and you know, now we have around many Disneyland. I mean, that’s what dopamine is. It’s a 8,000 square foot permanent experience. We have our flagship retail there. Um, area 15 gets 10,000 people a day. Anyone can go to our retail and then we get a lot of them buy tickets to go that experience. So now we’re operating across this.

12:50
Digital IP, product, immersive experience, trifecta, kind of like Disney, but much more inappropriate and clearly not as big. And that’s where we’re going. So that’s kind of like where we’re at. And it’s super fun because all of this has come together over the last nine months, all of it really went live, like in November. So we are just right in the thick of it, launching it all and working through things. But that’s kind of like at a high level and not that short, sorry listeners, but hopefully it’s interesting kind of.

13:19
how we started it and where we’re going right now. So I find this incredibly fascinating because I’m gonna ask a question here in a second and it’s gonna be a very probably clunky question because I’m just trying to wrap my mind around it because for people of my generation, so I mean, I’m gonna be, God, I’m gonna be 50 this year. Like when we think about collectibles, we think about like, hey, how my mother-in-law collected like precious moments or my dad did the beanie bears or you know.

13:46
So they were actually like tangible things. And like this whole idea of taking collectibles and these tangible things into a digital space is a little bit mind blowing. And it kind of begs the question like, why? Like what is like the impetus? And I mean, you put it in the context of like Disney world and like, oh yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I can kind of get that analogy, but like Mickey Mouse has been around forever.

14:13
Right? And so like this development of new characters and putting them in like a digital first experience is a little, it’s a bit mind blowing. So I’d love like, I can’t think of any better question to ask them why. Like what is the stimulus behind it? Like what draws somebody to like want to create like this or like what do they serve, who are they serving or what are they trying to accomplish?

14:36
I’m a giant nerd. I grew up collecting physical comics, sports cards in the 80s would take a cardboard box of comics down to the San Diego Comic-Con in the late 80s where you could physically trade them and buy them and come back. And now while that can still happen, a lot of it sometimes can be digital forms of those comics or NFTs or showing things off online. So where I think we’re at, like there are a couple of things that are driving me. So

15:03
One, first and foremost is technology. So, there are these amazing ways to interact and experience and show things off from a digital standpoint, right? Like that can be as simple as showing off NFTs and a MetaMask wallet to doing live breaks on your own channel and showing off what you collect if you’re trying to sell it or maybe just participating and talking about in community. So it’s a lot easier to engage with people that have those shared affinities all over the world when you use digital.

15:33
right, versus kind of individual physical meetups. So can allow smaller groups of shared interest to really do more together. And so that’s one, it’s easier for us to kind of show off digital collectibles and engage from that side. Two, I think with a younger audience in Gen Z, like they are always online and using their phone and consuming from that standpoint. And so they view experiences or even things that are done digital.

16:02
sometimes even more valuable or at the same level as a physical one. So there is that they view it similarly, and then that blending in that physical digital reality, and just kind of where we’re going overall society. So, you know, with the new tech and just consumer habits changing, when you’re looking at this younger audience, like they are going to want to be more extroverted from a collector standpoint, typically.

16:29
And how can they show that off and then participate in communities? That’s going to be done digitally because they’re not flying all over. There aren’t big meetups necessarily for final art figures around town. There will be if they physically get to a Comic-Con or physically get to DesignerCon in Las Vegas. Those are conferences that happen, you know, a weekend over the year. But you have these rabid fan bases that want to talk about collectibles, want to show them off, want to sell them to each other, want to see unboxing videos.

16:59
And you can do that online, right, without having to physically go there. And so there is a awesome trend and content of literally people just watching others open things like unboxing videos of collectibles. There is this aspirational component of I want to get it. I might not be able to afford it or I might not be able to travel to that place to buy it, but I can watch them on box the video. And then if they make that collectible on available online.

17:26
whether buying it through e-commerce physical one or a digital equivalent, I now have a chance to achieve that aspiration that I was thinking about before, that previously maybe I didn’t. And so like those things from a digital site really let people start to do more of it. So yeah, I mean like the big background economics when you’re looking at what resources do we have, what’s the addressable market, what’s the most efficient way for us to engage our community, grow them and ultimately monetize them.

17:56
Digital and immersive technologies are like at the leading edge. I mean, they’re one of the biggest things that we can do and we can do it. Relatively cost effective. So like even from an IP side, like we can pressure test new characters and pretty quickly from a digital side of things or roll out. So, for example, like we have a couple of our characters have some AI behind them and we’ve loaded them up with knowledge around our toys.

18:26
all of the collectibles we’ve made and also one character specifically is an expert in Fortnite and Fortnite strategies because we’re trying to set her up as a virtual gamer. So we actually have an environment where you can talk to her. There’s a phone number you can call, there’s a website you can go to and interact. And so before we fully decide, hey, we’re going to go make physical toys of this character.

18:46
Why don’t we just see how our fans, you know, engage or respond to them from a content side or on this interactive, you know, kind of AI avatar. And if they’re really spending time there and we’re getting a lot of views or engagements, maybe there’s enough of a there there to then make a physical product, right? A physical collectible. So really it’s just trying to like read the tea leaves and stay ahead. But looking at real data, like, yes, people are always online.

19:13
digital technology allows us to kind of reach people all over quicker. And they’re really, really fun ways that it comes to life. And I think mentality has changed with the younger generation where they do feel validated and show value. Sometimes when collectibles are digital, it doesn’t have to just be the physical component of it. And you see that too, honestly, with like a lot of sports cards ones, they’re

19:40
Companies and platforms where basically like you’re buying high end cards from them, but they’re bolting it and they’re giving you the digital version. So you have, but then you don’t ever physically have the card or the art piece because one insurance storage shipping, et cetera. So it’s just there. So anytime you want to sell it, like they hand it all for you, but then you still are the owner of it, but you’re just kind of engaging with it from a digital standpoint. So there are a lot of those things that mean.

20:06
Personally, I still love physical toys and physical cards. And so I have all of them. Like the garage is basically a museum of collectibles, but the younger generation Gen Z, like they want to show more digitally. If they don’t post on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube, it didn’t happen to them. So any experience you make for them needs to be made with that in mind of like, we have to give them that photographic moment. We have to give them their digital takeaway, like something that they’re going to cherish, they’re going to love, they’re going to show off to their friends. And a lot of times that’s photo, that’s a video, that’s some…

20:36
exclusive thing no one else has except for them that we’ve made and whatever that is, it’s just typically based on our IP and manifests its way in something fun that we feel our fans like. So yeah, there’s no like exactly answer why it’s just a lot of those reasons and looking at trend lines and it’s proven out well, but that doesn’t mean every single one of our fans engages or interacts with us across the digital. Some just buy our course. I want to say.

21:04
That’s it, they just love to collect the physical toys. We’re gonna have some people that just wanna go to dopamine, our experience, which I know we’ll talk about. And we have some that just watch our content on TikTok and YouTube. And then obviously we have ones that do all three, two out of the three, and that’s what we’re trying to do more of. And then is there a fourth sandbox we try to bring in to engage fans more? We don’t know yet, but that’s kinda how we’re constantly thinking about it. You said a lot there and in the journey to getting to where you are and-

21:31
I know you said a little bit of reading the tea leaves, but I think one of the things that you guys have done very well is being strategically intentional about where you test and learn how you do it. And then like you just said, knowing who you’re targeting. So I would love if you can give a little bit of a peek behind the curtain. You said kind of the journey of how you got to here, but how do you make those decisions? Right? Like we talked about pivots you guys have had to make, right? Like moving the heads.

22:00
Give us that, like I said, peek behind the curtain into how you strategically make decisions, but also are always pushing forward with kind of a vision in mind. No, absolutely. So it starts with a data point, but it can’t always be numbers. It’s definitely art and science. But when looking first, like for us, it’s looking at data on our consumers. Those are actual consumers of product, but then those are also our fans and followers of social media.

22:27
And historically, those are two different audience demos for super plastic. There is some Venn diagram overlap, but they are not the same person. Typically the purchasers are 40 to 50 year olds with higher household income that don’t mind spending a couple hundred dollars on a $200 toy. Obviously those that engage with our TikTok and YouTube skew younger, not as high from a household income. So.

22:49
We look at direct kind of data from those platforms, some third party data sources as well, just to understand kind of the affinities and interests of our fans. Where do we over index against, I would say general population? So for example, on social media, I can tell you that across all the super plastic social media channels, our followers are five times more likely to be into gaming, specifically Fortnite.

23:19
than the general adult person age 18 or over. That’s a big differentiator. So that tells us that if we do more, and gaming or Fortnite fans should like it, then that’s the hard data. Then you look at the kind of anecdotal art of it, generally when you read our social media comments, almost always there are a handful of them go, hey, isn’t that the guy from Fortnite? No matter what we post, they’re just like, isn’t that the guy from Fortnite? So like,

23:48
You have the people commenting, you can just read it and see, obviously people are into it. Then you look at the hard data, which shows there were five X more likely to be in a gaming and Fortnite than general population. Like those two things together tell me that our fans are into this. We should do more of it and see. So then internally it’s like, okay, what is that? Is that creating content around Fortnite that we put out to see people engage with? Is it from my lens looking at revenue?

24:17
calling Epic Games and seeing what else we can license our characters into to have them show up more? Or is it even, you know, trying to find a developer partner like we did in Barnyard Games that has made a lot of fun Fortnite map games and go, hey, can we partner together to go launch a new game? We have the IP, we have the social channels promoted, we need someone that knows Fortnite UEF and game mechanics to make the best one. So that’s what we did. So it starts with kind of those two data points.

24:46
Then we talk about it internally on our leadership team. We have a small leadership team, about five people. And then we act like it’s, it’s pretty much gets brought up, talked about. We have obviously formats of how we need to show things. Um, and then it’s decided upon and then said, go. And so then I, you know, Pursue it with barnyard, get our creative teams involved, start to build off the world, do the launch plan and go. So like that, that’s one of the ways that we’ll do it, but that’s just kind of looking at data and then react.

25:16
The other thing that we’ve done over the last few months is really trying to engage and understand voice of customer like directly. So we’ve did a deep, deep dive customer survey to thousands of our vinyl hard toy collectors and purchasers over the last year, all through e-commerce and asked a variety of questions to help understand, you know.

25:43
What they like about super plastic, where can we go next? How can we do better for them from a partnership side, from a secondary market side, bringing them in. And so understanding more about our different collectors. And so we’ve taken a lot of that data from that survey and then used it internally. So like one of the things we always knew that we were never very, you know.

26:06
going to veer away from is we are very much a hype sales limited edition. We are not a mass play. We are not Funko. They do a great job, but we’re much more like a Supreme, you know, there are 500 of these made than they’re out. Let’s try to hype it, get a sellout moment and then move on. Our collectors already always loved that. And so we knew that, but then it was like, okay, well, what else can we do? And for them, one of the interesting things about the survey in the summer was.

26:34
Collectors love to understand what they’re missing in the collection. They love to show it off. So there were a lot of responses that kind of informed that, Hey, we should be telling a story on all of our product drops about where they fit. So if we are doing 15 inch Uber jankies, you know, we did a rainbow red one this summer, um, we did a Chrome drip one in February of 24, now we have a new one coming out next month, those are a series. So.

27:03
The rainbow red we talked about in the summer, this is now the second in a series of three with the final one dropping in Q1 of 25. So you need to get this so you can complete your collection of all three Uber, you know, jankies or the Chrome drip series. And so telling those stories about how to complete collections was a big thing we’ve learned showing that off. Moving into what you see a lot in sports cards, which you’re gonna have on a lot of our products this year, actual numbers. So this is like has a actual, you know,

27:33
number on the figure itself that shows you it is number 25 of 500, right? Because certain people gravitate to short numbers, they want a higher one or like myself, 17 is a very lucky number in the family. I would always go after any sort of toy that had a 17 on it versus one that didn’t. So those are like tactically voice to customer running surveys and then being at Comic-Con doing zero party data, same thing. When people are coming through our booth just asking a lot of questions and

28:01
And looking at our social media data, our website data, you know, cross attribution from where they come in to where they purchase and trying to make sense of the so what or what’s interesting from all those data points, bring it to kind of our leadership team of five, talk about it, make choices, and then stick with them and acknowledge their trade-offs with those choices. So we’re focused on all things immersive experience, the dopamine right now. That means.

28:30
probably going to be producing less of X. What is that? And then we need to be okay with that. There’s so many like similarities between how you think about growing a brand or a business in general. And there’s just so many other nuances that still has my brain just kind of spinning. But I’m super like interested in the element that you mentioned before. You mentioned that you did like a partnership with Gucci.

28:55
And so I totally get like how you’re using your ecosystem in order to drive more of your brand. But I’m also super fascinated to kind of figure out how do other brands engage with you? Like, what do they, when they come to you, what are they looking to get from you? Because I mean, I come from, you know, 20 years at P&G, and we sell consumer products, but that was always like a question of trying to like have some level of integration in some way that made sense. What makes sense?

29:24
from your standpoint, like what brands, what are brands looking for when they come to try to partner with you? Yeah, I know, it’s a great question. So I think first and foremost, we bring a edge to the table just from the type of content and the background of our characters and story and just how heavy we are from a Gen Z audience. So that’s one, like we bring that audience in a big, big way from experiential and then content, and then we go a little older on the collectible side.

29:53
But what brands get from us and what they’re trying to get is back to that Demented Disney analogy is they want extensions in digital IP. They want some co-branded product drop that’s timed around some brand window for them, and they also want to figure out how to get into immersive experience. And we have all those things launched. They’re alive. So they can partner with us and get into those and we get into numbers. Like we have good reach on them, or they can go build it on their own, which is

30:23
much bigger proposition sometimes. And so one, we have a built-in Gen Z edgy audience that we can do things that maybe that brand can’t, but they can be associated with, which is what they want, because if they go all the way in that edge, it may not be authentic to them. And then also, like we already have this 8,000 square foot space that already has 10,000 people coming to area 15 a day. So there’s addressable foot traffic. So how can we just integrate into that versus building our own? So like, you know, one of the ways for a general brand.

30:53
they’re trying to accomplish. I think one just so people understand like overall on social we’re about 25 million followers. We do over a billion views on TikTok and in YouTube shorts. We’re talking big numbers. So a lot of times we’ll integrate the brand into our content on our channels and do the full animated content’s part of a story. So you know let’s say

31:18
Gucci would be New York fashion show. So let’s say we’re heading into that. What we would do is some animated content, maybe around fashion and kind of janky and gooky mon, trying to sneak into the best after parties at New York fashion show. So they’re talking about it, but they got to get their fit checked on right. And maybe their fits, like the outfits they’re gonna wear are some Gucci branded apparel, or they’re trying to get into the Gucci party and just have it be some more organic tie-in that talks about it in a way.

31:46
generally tied to whatever the big moment is. And so for Gucci, it was kind of having this high end, awesome porcelain figure that was also tied to a NFT. So the Gucci one originally was an NFT. And if you got the NFT, you could then, as part of it, you were eligible to redeem it for that physical porcelain figure based on our normal mold. So…

32:13
We manufacture all that, we put that whole program together, we design it all, promote it, they again get to participate in that without having to figure out all their selves. And then if we had dopamine back when the Gucci partnership existed, which we didn’t, but now we do, and what I’m talking to brands about now was like, okay, well can one of the rooms in the experience be maybe like a Gucci super plastic fit check type of room?

32:42
to understand like which outfits give you the most dopamine because you’re heading out to a party and is that something we can capture on photo and video and then send to even the participant when they leave the experience, is that physical printed photo or digital photo that we’re sending them, is that branded with Gucci? Does the room have Gucci bags everywhere that you’re also touching and interacting with? That’s then how we can bring it all to life. And so really like, again,

33:10
They’re getting reach and engagement to a very, very attractive audience. Um, they are like, for those that love anybody content and find art figures like J.K. and Goodymon are known, we do have good brand equity. And so some really want the association with them, but really it’s this Gen Z audience in the edge. Um, we can bring that naughtiness without the brand having to become fully naughty, which, you know, brands want to partner a lot. And then again, like we have a full-blown ticket experience, um, built out.

33:39
They can just jump in for a three month campaign and then jump out for some cabin and build something from scratch. So that’s kind of how we’ve been talking to it. And then open to whatever else we can help them deliver on. Like we’re pretty nimble. We want to stick to content, merchandise and experience. But let’s say I’m having conversations with brands right now, really know that for animated content and people have, they want to make mascots into characters.

34:08
Like every brand wants to have their own mascot. Can we help them ideate that mascot, design it, animate it, make it a 3d Riddick, do we bring it to life fully? Like we don’t want to be a creative agency by any means, but we are very experienced in animated characters and then turning that into a product. So knowing that we’re having fun conversations with brands about, yeah, how can we help you make a mascot essentially your own digital IP? Um, how can we make it part of our world or not?

34:38
Do we want something together with you? And so it’s powered by super plastic. Like they’re all fun conversations. I know you wanna talk about dopamine. So I will go there in a second. But one of the things that I wanna touch on a little more in depth that Anne started to lean into with like how the brands come together. How do you guys make sure that you’re maintaining the integrity of who you are as a brand with who you partner with? Because obviously on the Mercedes Gucci, those are brands with traditionally older.

35:06
high income folks that are trying to stay relevant to Gen Z and be edgy, I get it. You just talked about brands that want mascots and they’re coming to you because you’re so good at it, but does that necessarily fit with what you should be doing or is that a distraction? How do you maintain that integrity of who you are? I mean, I get that you’re nimble, but there has to be discipline to that all along the way. It’s a great question. I think when it comes to mascots and digital IP, like we want it to be authentic to, our fans can be into this.

35:36
Does it also grow the janky and googly mon super plastic world? If not, if we’re just making it for someone, then we’re kind of just a white label agency and that doesn’t make sense. So we want it to be a partnership, a collab where it’s super plastic X brand. You fill in the blank. We don’t want to do any white label where we’re just making stuff or even figures and people don’t even know it’s us. So definitely want it to be a IP growth on both sides. So a true brand collab. It comes back down to the just.

36:04
small leadership team of, hey, money’s going to talk. This brand, here’s the opportunity, here’s the dollar. Here’s where fan overlap is. I think it’s cool. Are we all good with this brand? And if people are like, no, even though there’s money there, it’s just not authentic to where we want to be. It’s totally square, totally opposite, then it’s going to be no. Like our CEO, and with the backing of Paul, and our CEO, Jennifer Van Dyke, and great, it’s like, no, we are only doing things that are authentic.

36:31
The power of no is needed and it’s something we have to do to kind of keep our fans happy. Otherwise, we come across the sellouts that we’re just trying to get dollars and bring any brand and win. So it’s tough as someone who’s in charge of revenue often sometimes you have great opportunities, but you have to go, I don’t think we’re going to be able to do this just because from a brand fit like our fans. This isn’t authentic for these reasons. I know you’re ready to invest, but no, like we have to have.

36:59
some reasons to say, hey, this is furthering our own IP or it’s bringing something to our fans that they’re absolutely going to love. And that’s where again, like there’s some data points for it. Some of it’s also art and just talking through our leadership team. Do we think this is going to help us get to our next step? And we know what our goals are for this next year and two years and a lot of it, you know, experiential and IP products are a part of it, but it’s definitely getting driven by kind of experiential and digital IP. So like those are the ones where

37:28
I’m having to focus more on versus a brand that comes in like, Hey, we love you as vinyl art toy figures. We want to make these types of toys. This is how many we want. Can we do this in nine months? I’m going to say probably not, but let’s talk about how we can do that and do it. A 12 month partnership program where you are incorporated into our animated content, incorporated into dopamine, our experience.

37:55
And then we can culminate with this awesome product drop at event X, which matters to you. But here’s how we introduce brands first or our fans, sorry, first to this relationship, because it needs to be a relationship. We don’t want to just insert ads and have, you know, a brand ad getting posted on our channels. That’s never going to happen. So top down leadership sign off of like we have to make choices. We have to be authentic first and foremost. And then after.

38:24
you know, that’s being the first marker. Like again, is it hitting on all three of our digital IP products and immersive experience? Is it one of those three, two of those three? Then we got to look at the money, have the conversation, and then again, make a decision, stick with it and keep moving. A lot of people are trying to kind of replicate your success, right? And so it’s always been like a constant conversation in their mind about how do they create something like that you created. So,

38:53
without giving away the secret sauce, I’m not asking you to do that, but I’m really fascinated to kind of understand, like what is the brief to like creating something like this and what leads? So is it the content first, is the character first, or is it the experience first, or like what leads and gets that initial excitement? And then what kind of follows from that? Cause I’ve heard…

39:17
You know, originally you said you’re kind of testing and learning with content before you develop the character, but then it sounds like at the origin, it was the characters first that kind of led the whole like creation into the content, or maybe it was content storylines that kind of necessitated the need for the character. I’m just, I’m just understand a little bit, what does the brief actually look like to create this whole experience? Yeah, I think, you know, overall brief is how do we become the next $10 billion IP company? Like that’s…

39:46
the North Star of where we’re going. I think the center of the snowball is the character in the backstory. We can test things out quicker than making physical products. So sometimes we’ll test out those characters in backstories to see how engaged people are to them from a content side. Or sometimes we’ll have them appear as a friend of Jake and Gookie Mon in the video game. Or Daisy, the character.

40:13
is the one I was talking about before, who’s loaded up with Fortnite knowledge. We’ve done content with her as like the best friend of Paris Hilton around going to festivals a couple years ago where, you know, she went to Coachella and all this. We make content around that. Daisy the character we’re testing as a gamer, letting people call her. So we have that phone number up and seeing, you know, how frequently it’s used. It’s part of the experience of dopamine at the end. And then if people are spending a lot of time with it, okay, how can we do more or how can we potentially monetize it?

40:42
So that’s where I was saying like we test and learn, but it really does start with the character and the character lore. And so that’s also like, you know, J.K. and Gugi Mon, I would say are more, if we’re talking CPG and beverage, like they’re probably not gonna do just a very vanilla bread company, right? The Wonder Bread and J.K. and Gugi Mon.

41:06
Unless like we totally are doing opposite day and doing some huge satire on the whiten and plainness of Wonder Bread, there’s probably not a authentic partnership with Janky and Googiemon. Something more like a liquid death water, yeah. Like, you know, they got the similar vibe where a lot of automotives that wanna get a little more edgy but can’t do it fully themselves, we can bring that edge to the table for them. It really is kind of still the characters at the center of it.

41:35
And then we tested in a couple of those different places. And that’s where we’re using our background and knowledge of media and content, you know, of AI and actually building of characters of Web3 and blockchain. Our CEO, Jennifer Van Dyke used to be at Dapro Labs. Before that, she did a lot on content from an athlete standpoint. And then, you know, a lot of this leadership team has a background in sports. And for me,

42:04
I do view superplastic as kind of like a sports team where we have a community. We’re trying to engage and we’re trying to monetize them from a business side. And we don’t have sports games that they show up and we have IP. It’s our characters. They love engaging. They watch content. Uh, we have a physical space that now they can show up to and we have products that we make. Um, so again, how do we continue to grow that? And that’s really where it is. So for me, it is our characters are at the core.

42:33
What’s the best way to engage and monetize our various communities? Awesome. Well, I said, I’m going to let you talk about dopamine. So let’s go, let’s go there full throttle. You know, some of the comments you’ve made is like, we’re really putting a lot of eggs into that basket. Those are my words, obviously. Right. You know, when you and I talked, we talked about the fact that you weren’t known in Vegas when that was entering, right. And so.

42:57
Tell us about the experience, but also all these layers we just talked about, about the characters are right for that and the audience is there and you know, we’re gonna attract, I’m assuming this new audience we think through this and so just talk about how, you know, again, the behind the scenes strategy of making that decision and then what that experience looks like for folks. Looking overall, like we saw a lot of data of just our fans consumer base and those that are collectors, those that collect things also heading more into immersive experience.

43:26
seeing a lot more immersive experiential things pop up. And they’re everything from the traveling, projection map, Van Gogh, art exhibits, which are amazing, Sprinkles Museums, two permanent installations like Omega Mart. Meow Wolf is kind of the biggest company in this space and their big concept Omega Mart is 55,000 square feet. It’s a grocery store, it’s not a grocery store. You like to open the freezer and walk into a rave.

43:51
You grab the bag of popcorn, but it’s actually cotton balls. It’s just, you know, this kind of blurring of reality, self-guided, all of that, super fun. And you’re starting to see too with entertainment with some of these immersive experiences based around larger IP. So Netflix opened a Squid Games house in New York. Like they took over an old mall and redid it as Squid Games and as part of their promotion for Squid Games too. I think there’s a John Wick experience that was tied around a movie, maybe in Batman.

44:21
This is this next step of how can people continue to engage with IP beyond buying things and watching things. It’s physically being in, um, it’s this immersive touch walkthrough, see, you know, and where are those? So like that overall was a big driving force. And then from an investor standpoint, like we had some friends, you know, in area 15 and they had just built again, like a dress for market.

44:48
three blocks, they get 3.6 million people a day that already go to Area 15 to go to their other ticket experiences, to go to their restaurants, to go to the arcades because it’s free to enter and then there are certain things that are individuals after. You have all that and it was just an awesome opportunity when talking with Area 15 about them looking for another tenant, something a little different than the ticket experiences they already had. Something a little edgier.

45:16
but still able to be family friendly during the day, but can edge maybe a little older at night. And something that leverages some new technologies. And so like we have characters, we have some awesome technology of interactive mirrors and AIs around them to bring them to life where actually people are engaging with these characters that they’ve seen. And then we had a really funny idea and concept. So that’s why back to characters and the story being the center of that snowball.

45:46
For dopamine, and what we have, I think really it was the story that got it there, and then we’re bringing it to life and making it work. So the story real quick is hysterical. So Janky and Guggeman again are constantly doing these get rich schemes. So our immersive experience in Vegas is literally their next get rich scheme. And the people that go to it are participants in it. So Janky and Guggeman are running a human trial research institute. They wanna understand

46:15
what causes dopamine in people’s system, essentially creates pleasure. A lot of things that create dopamine, exercise, telling the truth or telling lies, right? Laughing, dancing, being excited. And so, Jake and Guggenheim have created what is called the Dopamine Institute for Pleasure Research or DIAPER for short, because they’re 14 year old boys at heart.

46:43
And we’re physically putting people through different experiences to see how much dopamine is creating their system. Cause Jake and Gugiman want to extract it, can it, and sell it as a drug on the black market. So they want to steal your dopamine and sell it back to you. That’s the scheme. So it’s kind of out there. You’re a part of the experience where literally you are a participant. Jake and Gugiman are the doctors, the practitioners, it has this kind of

47:12
Back alley New York meets a hospital vibe to it. Each room is out there. One is called Private Dancer. It’s a bunch of individual bathroom stalls. And each bathroom stall is an interactive mirror with one of our characters that essentially is doing dance dance revolution, right? There’s different lights and music going on and they’re doing dance steps and you’re supposed to kind of mimic them in your own stall.

47:38
But the thing is, it’s not that no one’s looking, everyone’s looking. You have our FID bracelet on, it’s getting videoed. And so before you leave the room, it then shows that the horizontal mirror, like in front of the sink, at the front, what everyone’s doing, who danced the best, who, you know, maybe had the funniest look when they were dancing. And so when you leave, you kind of get this whole print out of photos of you during that experience. And so there are similar rooms doing that. And it is just this.

48:03
blending of this digital and physical. It is the no one’s looking, yet everyone’s looking. You may be uncomfortable in some rooms, you may be happy in some of the rooms. It’s kind of all of those together because like our style, like literally in our internal brand guide, like we say our style is fuckery. So J.K. and Googie Mott are kind of fucking with you. Like as you go through the experience, that’s the, you feel like, wait, is this real? Am I getting, is this a prank or not? Like that’s part of it too, because that is the core character. So that’s wildly different than a lot of what Area 15 has.

48:32
And so we created a way where no one knows Janky and Googiemon at all, which most of the people walking to area 15 have no idea who we are. It’s very different. It looks cool. It’s very vibrant. We have a retail store there that has all of our amazing final art figures for everyone to see. So they just kind of walk in and go, Oh, that looks really cool as shit. I wonder what this is. So then we have to obviously bring them in, tell them about the experience to it. We have others know Janky and Googiemon, super plastic. Now this is our newest thing. So they are seeking out.

49:01
you know, dopamine and area 15 is the destination. And then there are others just around Vegas of like trying to show off that we are just a cool new experience. Like when you’re looking for things to do in Vegas, what is cool, new and different? Dopamine being part of a human trial research Institute that’s not real, but kind of Israel has all these amazing, you know, vinyl art figures and cool character war behind it, and you kind of get fucked with a little bit like that’s.

49:28
everything we’re bringing to the table new and different. And right now the response is very fun. And we’re still working through and seeing what people react to the most. And the plan is to keep it fresh. We have the ability to update rooms. It’s very modular. We have the ability to work in brand partners for a few months at a time. We can use it as hospitality, like to throw parties or larger events at night. And we’re just having a lot of fun seeing what people are really into and making sure we deliver on that.

49:58
There’s just so much I love about this. It’s like the epitome of joy, right? And then at the end of the day, I feel like that’s really what you’re selling through the entertainment venue, but it’s just pure, like unadulterated joy. And it’s done in such a way that is more about the people than it is about you. And I think that’s really, even though you’re maintaining authenticity about your characters and it’s still self-serving, it is a business.

50:27
But the experience is more about what kind of reactions you can get from people, how can you connect with people in different ways, kind of goes back to that initially at the beginning about how do you make a digital experience? And even in this case, it’s more of a physical experience, different and unique and talk worthy and all of those sorts of things that.

50:49
A lot of brands are really creating for nowadays, but they’re not willing to go to the links. I think you guys are going through it. It’s not cheap. Yeah. It takes a lot of time and we’ve invested in it and launched. And so now again, we’re, we’re, it’s working. People are coming in, but yeah, it takes a lot. And so if we already have it built and it’s relevant and there’s enough of an overall after brands, I think like that’s our value proposition of like, we already have it, we can make you a full part of this. You don’t have to do it from scratch yourself.

51:18
1000% and I wanted I went to acknowledge though is how much you guys really appreciate and craft the story. And I think that’s what a lot of people gloss over and i’m sure it’s a frustrating piece for you and people want to come and take their. brand advertising message and try to smush it into your story and trying to craft it in a way that it works for both, and so if anybody wants to do this sorts of things I hope they’re hearing.

51:46
from this episode how important it is to really listen to the source of where you wanna go into and the importance of really respecting the story, the character development, the whole spirit and vibe around it and really wanna be a part of that versus trying to force fit everything that you want into that because I mean, it is a craft beyond craft and I just wanted to honor that. No, thank you, appreciate it and yeah.

52:15
We’re in a on-demand, overly stimulated world where everything is competition in my mind. And people have the ability, it’s easier for them and they have more options of where they wanna spend their time. So when you do things that are inauthentic to the trust that you built with them or what they’re into, they’re fickle, they’re gonna be put off by it and go find somewhere else to spend their time.

52:44
And it’s way easier for them to do that. So yeah, like if you’re thinking short-term money grab, come in brand partner, sure, but you’re killing your brand. Give it four months, no one’s gonna like you or follow it anymore. But when you’re really trying to build and grow a brand, continue to stay authentic and only working with things that the fans are really gonna love, your fans are gonna stay with you forever. Gives you a longer running way to figure out, okay, what’s the best way to go monetize that. That may delay the immediate revenue in the short-term,

53:14
mid to long term because now you have this passionate, trustworthy fan base. They’re not going anywhere. They know that when you bring in partners, they’re relevant ones, and you start to build up that equity, get those case studies and just start to do more. And like, that’s what we’re hoping to do and repeat our success. I mean, like we have plans in the next two years to open more experience, right? Like take a form of dopamine maybe on the road or find a new permanent location that could be dopamine or a different scheme.

53:42
that’s tied to J.P. and Googie, or maybe it’s an entire different character set under super plastic that we’re going. But like, that’s where we’re going, but it has to be authentic to our core fans. Like, we wouldn’t just go make something because a brand asked us to, because like, then we’re just a vendor. Like, we aren’t a brand. Like, we’re not super plastic. It needs to have our IP in. Well, and I love that there’s that vision to the future too, because I think that speaks to the intentionality and pushing the envelope. But with the idea in mind of we’re learning.

54:12
in this dopamine experience. So you didn’t just go and do four of those things at one time. You’re doing dopamine and then that will grow into and morph and somewhat organically, probably you’ll see the signs of where to go, but you also have the idea of what that might look like in mind. Yeah, no, absolutely. That’s exactly how we’re doing it. Like similarly to like we knew we had a good hit on the gaming areas and now we’re testing one more thing this year. Like we have a partnership with one of the big publishing

54:42
has really big time known game and game characters and we are doing something awesome with them later in this year. It’s not Fortnite related, but it’s adjacent and we feel we have enough proof points there that people will be really excited about it and we drop it to our fans. Like they know that we don’t partner with lame ones. It’s very few and far between. So I think they’ll be receptive to it as well. All right, well, we’ve talked for an hour and I feel like we could keep going and we’re both kind of geeking out on this topic.

55:10
We’ll cut it off here, but I have a feeling we may have you on again, Zach, as this experience continues to morph into the future. Would love to. Can I get a couple of shout outs of where people can maybe learn more if they’re interested? Oh yeah. I was going to do your rapid fire first, but yeah, go ahead. So, cause we haven’t been talking to a lot, I’d say a couple of things to check out, um, our website, superplastic.co. Um, and then there’s a big section on dopamine that you can get tickets.

55:38
You can also go to area15.com, learn more about them and it has information on dopamine. Social channels for us, at superplastic on YouTube and Instagram. And then for TikTok, it’s at janky and googiemon, which are our characters. So those are the best ones to do. And then we do have a dopamine 702 channel as well with the Vegas area code in there. But yeah, I forgot what’s a rapid fire question.

56:07
Okay, so the first one here is what is your all time favorite collectible? Because I know you’re a bit you’re big into that. I don’t know if it’s one of my toys, direct, but I’m gonna put a old original book is one of my favorites. So it’s my dad’s original Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson with some amazing art and Stedman that I probably put up there as one of my favorite collectibles that I have. Awesome. All right, favorite place you’ve ever been? Wow.

56:36
I mean, in the collector mindset, Tokyo is up there. London, we love to do London. London’s got a lot of fun stuff going on. I’m a big soccer guy, English Premier League, and just cities in general, and some of the history they got there. So, really love London. All right, and the last one, if you were on Amazing Race, what would you excel at? Yeah, my wife and I have talked about this before. Which is kind of amazing. I am a great Sherpa, and I have energy for days. So,

57:06
I excel in just not needing to take a break and just walk, go, execute it, really. Like, all right, we need to get from A to B. We’ll go get the tickets, carry all the bags. We’ll go and just kind of have fun with it. Can talk with anybody in any city and not get too worried about it. So yeah, like physically carrying a load and keeping the energy. That is where I would excel at Amazing Race, 1000%. And how I can totally see that.

57:36
So if you were going to be a character, what would the name of your character be and what would it be like? Like a new one, not real, because I do have an awesome art piece in the garage. It’s like, always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be Batman.

58:00
Otherwise, we’d have some derivation of my last name. I’ve always grown up with friends calling me Suge, Suge White, Suge Knight. So it would be some happy candy guy with Shug in the name. I love that. Who fights vigilantes at night. Yeah. Fights vigilantes at night. And then during the daytime as a youth soccer coach. Oh, that’s, that’s lovely. That would be me. All right. Well, thanks so much, Zack. This has been awesome. And with that, we encourage you to take at least one powerful insight you heard and put it into practice.

58:30
Because remember, Strategic Counsel is only effective if you put it into action. Did we spark something with this episode that you want to talk about further? Reach out to us through our website, ForthRight-People.com We can help you customize what you have heard to move your business and make sure to Follow or Subscribe to Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast platform.