How to Overcome Generational Challenges in the Workplace with Mark Beal, Rutgers University: Show Notes & Transcript

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

In this episode of Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business, learn from Mark Beal on all things generational differences in the workplace. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review!

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How to Overcome Generational Challenges in the Workplace with Mark Beal, Rutgers University

Differences between generations aren’t anything new. But, this generation entering the workforce – mainly Gen Zers – seems to be throwing all of us for a loop. We’ve heard a lot about struggles with communication, motivation, and accountability. What’s going on here?! We wanted you to learn from an expert on all things generational differences, so we welcomed on Mark Beal, Assistant Professor of Professional Practice, Communication at the Rutgers University School of Communication and Information. He’s also a Keynote Speaker and the Author of several books on Gen Z. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

• Overcoming differences in values
• How leaders can ease themselves into the new employee landscape?
• Why is there so much tension between Gen Z and everyone else?
• Where did we go wrong when we raised Gen Z and Gen Alpha?
• What should we expect when Gen Alpha enter the workforce?

And as always, if you need help in building your Strategic Counsel, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at: ForthRight-People.com.

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:

Show Notes

• How to Overcome Generational Challenges in the Workplace with Mark Beal, Rutgers University
  • [0:29] Welcome to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business
  • [1:58] Welcome, Mark Beal!
  • [3:56] Why has there been so much tension between generations recently?
  • [8:32] How is Mark bridging the gap between generations in the workplace?
  • [12:54] Where did we go wrong in raising Generation Z aka Gen Z?
  • [18:49] What are the gaps for folks who came into an untraditional work landscape?
  • [23:40] How leaders can ease themselves into the new employee landscape?
  • [29:10] Where does the idea that “showing up for work is enough” come from?
  • [34:25] What do people miss by not being in the office? And how do they get those benefits?
  • [37:54] Exploring the difference in values between generations
  • [45:40] Set some checkpoints and then get out of the way!
  • [47:06] What should we expect when Gen Alpha aka Generation Alpha enters the workforce?
  • Quick-Fire Questions
  • [50:13] What is a hidden gem of New Jersey?
  • [51:59] What is Mark watching?
  • [54:01] Does he have a side hustle?
  • [56:00] Mark’s take on ZEOs
  • [56:32] Check out Mark’s books and his TEDx talks!
  • [57:57] Make sure to follow Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast spot and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts
  • [58:06] Learn more at ForthRight-People.com and connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn

What is Strategic Counsel?

Welcome back to Strategic Counsel by ForthRight Business! Looking for Marketing Smarts? You’re in the right place. After almost 4 years of helping to make you savvier marketers, we decided to broaden this podcast to include more business-oriented topics that will make you savvier business leaders.

Thanks for listening Strategic Counsel. Get in touch here to become more strategic. 

Transcript

Please note: transcript not 100% accurate.

00:03

Welcome to the Strategic Counsel by Forthright Business Podcast.  If you’re looking for honest, direct and unconventional conversations on how to successfully lead  and operate in business,  you are in the right place.  In our discussions, we push on the status quo and traditional modes of thinking  to reveal a fresh perspective.  This unlocks opportunity for you, your team  and your business. Now let’s get to it.  Welcome to the Strategic Counsel Podcast. I am Anne Candido.

 

00:32

And I am April Martini. And today we’re going to talk about generational challenges in the workplace. So of course, differences between generations aren’t anything new, but this generation entering the workforce, mainly the Gen Z, are starting to be throwing all of us Gen Xers wires and some mature millennials for a loop. And we’ve heard a lot about the struggles with things like communication, motivation, and accountability. And of course COVID didn’t help us as it shifted expectations regarding things like

 

01:00

flexible work schedules between home and office, which only existed as an exception rather than the rule before. Yes, but there’s so much to learn from this next generation too, like how to truly model work and life harmony, which many of us have talked about forever, yet still fail to execute, and a focus on mind, body, and spiritual health. They also tend to have an appreciation for purpose, which forces more authenticity, and also impact from global issues down to the brands that they use.

 

01:29

I don’t think anyone would argue that these are bad things. They are just different things. Yeah. And without a doubt, these differences can be harder to navigate, harness, and direct. So to help us with this topic, we have a very special guest who has extensively studied this generation live and has written and spoken about his insights. And that is Mark Beal. He’s from the Rutgers University School of Communication and Information, assistant professor of practice and a Gen Z author.  Mark, it’s so good to have you here. I know we’ve…

 

01:57

know each other for a while. So we finally got you on our podcast. I was so excited about that. You want to just give everybody a bit of your story and say hi? Absolutely. Let me take an hour and give you my snob kit.  It would take an hour for you to actually give your full story because it’s pretty extensive and pretty impressive. So I’m kind of in the second phase of my career. The first 30 years were agency life, you know, which we’re all very familiar with. So I was at actually one agency for 30 years, which is, which is probably a little bit different than our Gen Zers, right?

 

02:24

for 30 years agency life and had a whole wide variety of clients like Coca-Cola and Taco Bell and Capital One and many others. so, you know, agency life as I like to say to folks, they’ll watch it leave after 30 years. I said, well, 30 years is like 150 years. You know, it’s seven days, 24 seven. And as I say, half kiddingly, you know, the clients never have it. So that’s 30 years. And then Rutgers University where I did graduate from many, many, many years ago.

 

02:50

asked me if wanted to teach one course in 2013. I was still at the agency and I said, sure, why don’t we teach one course? And I guess my reviews at the end of the semester were pretty good from the students. So they asked me, do you teach two? Would you teach three? And so within a year or two, I was teaching three courses. I partnered with the agency and I decided to go get my master’s degree at the same time. So that was pretty interesting in that. 2014, 2015, 2016. So by 2019, when they called and said, do you want to become a full-time professor? thought, well, that makes sense. 30 years in agency world. Let’s go 30 years now in academia.

 

03:20

Full time, I’m now six years into it, but I did start that first course in 2013 as what they just call an adjunct or a lecturer. So I guess I’m technically about 12 years into teaching at the university level and it’s been a blast. having fun with it and I’m really leveraging my first 30 years to try to purposely help my students as they start to transition to their careers. Yeah, I love that. And I think I told you my dad graduated from Rutgers too, right? As an engineer.

 

03:47

So that runs a little bit through my blood and I can appreciate that. So Mark, it’s awesome to have you here. Let’s start with really just understanding the tension first and foremost. Why do you think there has been so much conflict between the older generation and this younger generation? We could talk about an hour just on this, which is a great topic. So it’s fresh topic and it’s been  discussed quite a bit at length lately. So I’ve got two pillars, two pretty big pillars. I didn’t come up with these, but I share them all the time when I present.

 

04:14

Especially when I’m asked to present to a corporation on the genera, you know, the five unprecedented generations to workplace them. Some we have five generations, right? And so there’s two pillars that I believe are the foundation for all this. One is, and I can say it as my point at myself, but I’m saying the older guy, I’m pointing at me. The old Gen X are in me, right? We live to work. We live every day to get up and work 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 hours, take a nap and do it again.

 

04:40

By the way, that’s not right. just realized, I just found out 30 years later, that’s not the way to live. But we lived to work. So work was the epicenter of our life. Work was everything we did. Even on a Saturday and Sunday, work was what we did. So we lived for work. Gen Z doesn’t do that. They work to live. They work to earn a salary, to pursue passions, pursue aside hustles, travel the world, experience life. That’s actually the healthier way. So work isn’t the center of their life. Work is just a means to earn a salary to actually go out and do all these things.

 

05:08

including, as I said, pursue your passion, right? I have Jen’s years who now work full-time in marketing, but on the side, they’re singers and songwriters and they’re recording albums. Like, I love that. I just think that’s fantastic. So that’s a key pillar to me is the idea of older generations live to go to work every day. Younger generations work to afford to go live and enjoy life and experience alcohol. So I think that’s really key. And I’ll give you one more that we can always pause there. The other one is, and you hear this a lot now, but

 

05:37

You know, and again, I’m pointing to myself. No other. I’m not pointing at any other Gen Xers. We worked harder. Definitely not smarter. Like we took pride that it took 15 hours to get this thing done. But whatever it was right, we took pride in. I got in the office at 8 a.m. and I didn’t leave till 8 p.m. and give me a bonus because of that. Gen Z because they’ve had technology in the palm of their hands since the age of one, two or three. You know, they work smarter, not necessarily harder. It’s not about how many hours. It’s not about going into the office for how many hours. It’s about

 

06:06

How can we accomplish this task in a very efficient, effective way? Have we thought about AI? Have we thought about this platform? Have we thought about that technology? And so I think those are two kind of key, I called them pillars earlier, but philosophical areas that you’re confronting with now. And I’ll just hit a couple real quick, right? JPMorgan Chase, on March 1, you must report to the office every day and be here every day. And oh, by the way, we’re going to give you snacks. There’s some great stuff on TikTok, especially for morning brew where they’re basically just poking fun at you.

 

06:35

at Jamie Diamond and poking fun at, know, boy, you know, at 3 a.m. I’m still in the office because Jamie Diamond told me I have to be in the office, you all that kind of stuff. you know, you see, you’ve got Jay Kim, where he chased an Amazon. But then on the flip side, I love when Amazon said, hey, everyone’s got to be back and work on whatever was January 1st or so. SponFly takes out billboards and says, you know, our employees aren’t children. We will continue to work remotely and we’ll continue to give them that flexibility. so two completely different philosophies as it relates to work.

 

07:05

And I think they tie back to kind of those live to work, work to live, work harder, smarter, work smarter, you know, the harder. So I just think from there, there’s a lot that comes out of that. And then one last point, I just delivered a keynote speech to maybe 500 or so executives a couple of weeks ago in the morning, before I went in to deliver the speech at 9 a.m. or 9 30, I did my normal, you know, every morning I go through my newsletters and my news and my this and my that and fast company is a favorite, one of my favorite reads. And that morning, there was just a great headline.

 

07:33

Gen Z isn’t quiet quitting. They’re rejecting outdated leadership. If your company is losing Gen Z talent, chances are the problem isn’t them, it’s you. And I love, again, being the older guy,  I can say that I love that, right? Because what they’re saying is you got to transform, you got to innovate, you got to understand that not just Gen Z, but Gen Alpha, who the oldest of which are now 13 and will be, you know, joining your company in seven, eight years. They’re even going to be further down the line with this idea of working smarter and all those kinds of

 

08:03

So setting this up as just philosophically how different it is, is a really awesome place to start. And,  you know, we’re addressing this with our clients too, but I hadn’t really thought about, you know, live to work, work to live, and then harder, not smarter, smarter, harder. And the reasons why. And so  I think you’re in a super unique position though, because obviously you got the position at the university teaching this generation. You said you had very high reviews. So I would love to hear from you.

 

08:32

how are you bridging that gap? Because I think when we are so foundationally different, it can be, I’m gonna sit in mine and I’m gonna lead with an iron fist and all of that. And the expectation is gonna be they get in line versus what you said, which is they’re not getting in line. So you better change that. So I would love to hear  how are you speaking to them in ways that not only they hear, but clearly they respect  and they’re taking away. And obviously you’ve said there are many successful companies. So obviously,

 

09:01

they’re learning and getting big jobs as a result. So I would just love some more examples, maybe perspective. Yeah, absolutely. So I love to say,  I always say my proof points are all not just my students, but the students I’ve taught, they’re all my proof points right now. So I am not going to go through them all, but I’ve got one of my students is now the director of Olympic games advertising at NBC. Awesome. And my students is now the head of cultural intelligence at Paramount. One of my students is that of social media influencer marketing at REM beauty by Ariana Grande. These are all Jen’s years.

 

09:30

Um, and so the point is like,  they may be approaching it a different way, doing it a different way, smarter, not harder, all those kinds of things. But obviously they’re doing something right because they’ve  been, you know, been recruited, been engaged, promoted, promoted, promoted. And obviously they’re delivering something because no one’s getting to those levels by just simply showing up  and sitting at your desk all day. So,  so I’ve realized that  I’ve had to, even though I’m not running an agency or even running an organization.

 

09:58

I’ve had to adjust myself. I’ve had to transform and innovate even just my just styles in general, my styles of communication. I’ve had to recognize that mental health is a very, very, very important issue for this generation. And it’s not something you just flippantly, you know, just pass, oh, don’t worry about that. And it’s something you actually have to sit down and listen to them and understand and try to help. And so that’s not something, you know, pre 2020, too many organizations were having conversations about mental health. And now all of sudden, as my students graduate and get jobs.

 

10:26

And they call and say, by the way, thank you, thank you for helping me with this job or that job. They’re giving me mental health benefits. Like they’re not even telling me what they’re making. The first thing they’re saying is, and I’m mental health benefits, which I just love, but it shows how important it is. So I think the big thing, and I know I use these words over and over, but I think it’s just constantly transforming, evolving your approach  to  collaboration,  to working together, to  embracing technology. just sat in on a really

 

10:54

great panel that we had at Rutgers University. It was a German idea I had. And I just said, hey, what a panel with recent grads and how are they using AI, chat GPT and other technologies in the workplace? Because then we talk a lot about it on campus, but how are they using? And so there was four or five alums. One was actually in journalism. One was in public relations. One was in like market research, I think. And it was just fascinating to hear how these young, I say young alums, 24, 25, 26.

 

11:23

2017, how they’re not just  adopting the technology, but how they’re socializing it internally with colleagues who may be older generations and saying, have we ever thought of this? Have we tried this?  That task that takes us so long, and I’ll appreciate this, I just talked about the session, but  just like monitoring the results of a campaign where it’s old fashioned, know, Excel chart, and one of my former students said, yeah, we’re using AI now  to try to see if we can.

 

11:52

expedite that process if someone doesn’t have to just sit there and input all the data.  And so it was music to my ears to hear that. And it really all came down to just greater efficiencies.  Let’s spend more time on maybe strategy and creative and less time on these manual tasks that maybe technology can help us do again, as we go back to the original point, smarter and maybe work  not as hard or so. There’s so much I…

 

12:17

I love about what you had to say and I keep smiling and chuckling at myself because it’s all just so true.  mean, the mindset is in, call, I’m a Gen Xer too, so I’ll just poke on, we have now an N equals two of Gen Xers. April, you’re a Y, right? I’m technically a millennial, but an old millennial.

 

12:38

So she’s a mature millennial.  So when  we think about that, mean, there is this, it seems like a rite of passage that  we have felt like we have gone through and that we had to trailblaze and earn our stripes and  grind it all out and all those things that were necessary that our generation, the generation ahead of us could have set as the expectations for what success looked like, how you get ahead. How do they know that we’re doing our job?

 

13:07

You know, so all of these things are so ingrained in our brains of like, yeah, if you’re out of sight, then you probably aren’t working, right? You could be doing God knows what, but you’re probably not working. Or I’m like, I am you and you don’t respond right away, then what are you doing? Right? And then you hear about things like these Gen Z’ers have, a lot of them have side hustles. I mean, that is a norm, not an exception anymore. So then you’re like, oh, they’re off working on their side hustle. So then we start to kind of go in these like,

 

13:34

really bad places in our brain and it starts to really kind of go down deep and they’re like, well, I can’t trust this person.  And so I’m going to to micromanage and all those sorts of things, but we forget we’re the ones who raised this generation. So where did we go wrong, Mark? Where did we go wrong? How is this generation so different than what we have gone through? And even what our parents to some extent went through, because it’s not very different between the boomers and the Gen Xers and Gen Yers really.

 

14:03

So where did we go wrong or where did this shift happen or what changed that now this generation we raised is now acting totally differently than what we thought we raised? Great question and I’ll hit it, but I do want to just because April, the proud  member of the millennial generation here, I want to hit on this. Every time I do present, I actually call millennials the MVPs right now in the workplace. And the reason why is they’re managing up because, know, their boss, C-suite, whatever you want to call it.

 

14:31

probably a Gen Xer. It might be a millennial, but it’s probably a Gen Xer, could even be a bloomer. But millennials are also the ones who are like, oh, by the way, these new kids just showed up called Gen Z, train them, manage them, them, make sure they do it on the right, you whatever. So they’re in this place where they’re like up and down, managing up and down. But at the same time, they are taking on more and more responsibility, meaning millennials. They are evolving their careers and want to be in the C-suite or want to be the president or whatever. Right. So I really always do say that when I present, I have slides and I say, by the way, millennials, you are actually

 

15:00

what I call, I call them the bridge, but I call them the MVPs. The bridge that’s bridging this new generation that showed up and the X’s and the boomers who are still around, still hanging around, but kind of have one foot out the door. And so I just want to shout out to all the millennials out there that I have great respect for you because you’re under incredible pressure right now because of managing up and down. think, you hit it on earlier in the intro and I think this was really, know, 2020 was this incredible convergence of two major

 

15:29

things one this thing called the pandemic. You know we didn’t train for we didn’t go to we didn’t all go to training it’s okay in 6 months we’re going to go work remotely so get ready for we didn’t do it just happened over. And so we went from this thing called the office to home living room wherever sitting on my couch and that lasted a long time and it’s continued. But at the same time the oldest in tears actually graduating right then they were joining the workforce and so for many of them they never even went into an office they never you know they can go through that.

 

15:57

first week of you’re gonna sit down with the HR folks and sit down with the finance folks. They didn’t do any of that. I mean, they did all by Zoom, but there was someone every Wednesday in office for a year or two, and they might’ve even switched jobs once or twice since then. So you had these two things happening. So a generation who started their work in a very non-traditional manner, not the traditional that I think all of us started in  where you went to lunch, work on your first day of  work, and they took out for lunch and they did this and that. None of that happened. But the Gen Zers, as they did start,

 

16:24

They had already kind of experienced it in campus life because we went overnight from in-class learning to remote learning and no one taught us or taught the students how they were going to do it. But as I say, they adapted very quickly, they pivoted very quickly and they demonstrated incredible resilience. And so they had all that. And so I think going to work for them, it wasn’t much different. was like, well, I just proved I could do it. I just got my degree. I just showed I can go work. Give me that phone, give me that laptop. I can do it from a mountain, the beach or my couch. And so you had those two things happening.

 

16:53

And so I think you said it earlier, all other generations prior to that had a much more traditional onboarding in the workplace, a much more traditional transition to the workplace. Going into that thing we call an office and being there from eight to six or nine to seven or whatever the hours were where Gen Z didn’t just they didn’t have that. And even Gen Zers today, you know, so my we’ll call them the 22, 23 year olds who are not.

 

17:19

the oldest because the oldest Gen Z years, believe it not, turned 28 this year. If you go along with Pew Research Center, uses 1997 as the first year. Yes, they get their jobs, their jobs. Some may be fully remote, some may be hybrids, and maybe I go in a day or two a week. The one question I ask all my students when they return, who again are now three, four years in their career, so there’s 25, 26 minutes. So it’s one of questions, hey, by the way, where are you and your workplace? And once in a blue moon, someone will say, oh, we’re actually back four days a week.

 

17:47

But the majority, it’s like, we all go back one day a week, or I can go back any two days of the week I want, or we don’t go back at all, or our policy is so loose, I haven’t been in the office in 30 days. So that’s all happened in last five years as Gen Zers were joining companies and starting their careers and all that. So they just joined at a time that was very non-traditional and the rules changed overnight and all that. I think that’s at least part of it. One last comment.

 

18:13

The other thing too, I talked earlier about 30 years at one agency, which I think in today’s world is pretty rare, as you might guess. And I don’t think this is just Gen Z, but  they may stay somewhere 12 months and jump to the next place. They may have three or four jobs in three or four years, but I don’t think that’s Gen Z now. I  know  millennials right now who are kind of doing the same thing because I think the rules, again, of the workplace have changed a little bit all because of 2020 and the transformation of the workplace.

 

18:42

That idea of you have to be somewhere 5, 10, 15, 20 years. I think those rules are kind of out the window too now as well. As you were talking, I was sitting here thinking, so I’m switching gears a little bit or asking maybe the question in a little bit of a different way. But one of the questions I get in coaching some of these folks is you talked a lot about the traditional way we all learn to work, right? And so as an older millennial, I had the traditional experience too, right?

 

19:11

and I’m an agency person too. So I was in the office, I got the training from the people that were there. I was a jumper. I was known for that. It wasn’t every year, but it was every few years and I was on this path to try to achieve.  And so I often get the question from people and this is something I’m sort of passing along to you of, I want to do what you did. Where do I go and do that? And I think that a lot of that has also changed.

 

19:36

And so sometimes I’m at a loss of what to tell them.  so my question to you, because at the end of these conversations, I’m sort of like, well, listen to mine and Anne’s podcast. We cover a lot of our experience, you know, or go to these people that can be  mentors or coaches or leaders that can  teach you through their experience. But what are the gaps that you see  for folks that maybe haven’t been in an office, for example, or they want this more traditional path?

 

20:02

but it’s not there or how do you help them through your experience versus what the world is now and also gaps you see because you also have lived both spaces? Yeah. So I’ve been telling this sharing this part a bit lately, especially because graduation is just around the corner and I have many, many, many seniors who will graduate in six weeks. And so aside from the usual prep that I always help them with with job interviews, it’s my way of just giving back again. So my purpose now is to help.

 

20:31

these current students and  students now and next year and five years from now  get to wherever they want to get to. And so that’s something I just do aside from teaching. It’s just my way of giving back. And so it’s all the usual prep as far as everything from difference between an in-person interview versus Zoom interview versus a phone interview and writing thank you notes and all that, which I covered in one of our latest books called Win the Job and Thrive in a Multi-generational Workplace.  But  lately I’ve been sharing a lot. I said, as you interview for internships and jobs,

 

20:59

you need to interview them as well to make sure there’s a cultural match with what your style, the way you work. Because I just see so many different work styles with this generation because, you I know a lot of them don’t want to necessarily go sit somewhere all day in an office. Some might want to do that. I know they can do quite a bit just from that phone and that laptop. So lately, I’ve been really sharing a lot of it. You really have to dig in, immerse yourself, their culture is their culture, the right thing for you.

 

21:27

If it’s a, and I don’t mean to use this term badly, but it’ll come off badly. If it’s a sweatshop where it’s five days a week, you’re in this office and you be here or you’re not going to, you’re going to get fired. Well, if that’s not you, then do not take that job. You know, like, so you got to figure that out on the flip side, maybe being remote five days a week isn’t you either, because maybe it’s just too loose and I need a little bit of structure and I need a little bit of this and that. So I’ve really been encouraging them.

 

21:53

learn as much as you can about the culture. You can do that through the interviews. You can obviously do it through online research. can do it through maybe people who used to work there and try to get a real understanding. Does that culture match you and kind of your, I don’t have to say values, but how you work and how you thrive and how you will succeed. I’ve had students who’ve joined agencies that are pretty prestigious, pretty well known, and within a few months said, this doesn’t make, this just doesn’t match my.

 

22:21

and we’ll call and say, I quit? I’m like, at the end of the day, you’ve got to make that decision. That’s really your decision. And now they’re thriving because they have found places where they are thriving and where they actually do have this thing called work-life balance, or they’ve at least the ability to achieve work-life balance. So I think that’s a big piece of it. And nowadays, as we all know, there is a really diverse work-life, better word, I’m thinking of one agency in particular where, you know,

 

22:47

Northern California based agency when the pandemic came, said, why don’t we even have an office? Let’s go fully remote. And so I’ve got two  of my students based in New Jersey who graduated who worked for this agency. That’s technically, guess, in Northern California, but they both work out of their homes in New Jersey. They love it.  And then I think quarterly, the agency brings everyone together maybe on a field trip to a city like Chicago or somewhere like that. But they just love that. But that may not be right for everyone either. I  know I’m old school, so  of course I’m a little bit different.

 

23:15

I spent way too many days now, so I will never go back to what he did. Commuting two hours plus from where I’m sitting to the Empire State Building in New York, but I do like what I call H.I. human interaction. And so  if I was, I guess, graduating today,  I’d probably be the type that would like to go in somewhere a couple of days a week. But no, that may be a Monday and Friday. I don’t have to go in at all. And I don’t have to hop on that train or that bus.  It is such a different well, because.

 

23:40

And this is, could think another difference between the world that we grew up in and the world they’re growing up in is that there’s options. So there was no options for us, right?  There was no,  oh, I’m going to go work at this place because they have a flexible work schedule or I can  live in Cincinnati and work in California. that  wasn’t even a thing. You couldn’t even do that. You either relocated  or you stayed and you got a job in  the place that you lived. And so  when we  get a lot of

 

24:08

frankly, like their resentment from  people who are in these offices  and they do these drastic measures, like you said, of everybody’s gonna come back and they’re gonna work five days a week,  or they start feeling  that anxiety starts hitting because their people aren’t underneath their thumb, if you will, or  all these  tensions in the workplace that start to develop as a result of having to accommodate and all these leaders are like, why do I have to change?

 

24:38

Why don’t they change? And I think the biggest question or the biggest answer to that question is because they have options, right? So now they have options. And so the need to for them to have to change isn’t as dire as our need to have to change to accommodate their lifestyle in a way they want to live. But that’s making these leaders so mad. And so they think they do the knee jerk thing of like, well, then everybody’s just going to come back in so that I can watch and I can.

 

25:02

you know, manage and I can make sure that deliverables delivered on time and we can force water cooler conversation because we want a social environment and that’s the only way we can develop culture and all these things. So, Mark, give us the other side of the lens. Like, what would you tell those leaders who are like the, I think you, I don’t remember it was like the Spotify’s were the ones who said we’re gonna treat our employees like adults, which is actually another very important point that the person we just interviewed.

 

25:28

Guy Costin mentioned too is that he treats his employees like adults. That’s one way that he deals with all of this, closing that gap, if you will. What would you tell these people who are feeling those tensions in the workplace and like really knee jerking into these behaviors? You you raised a lot of great points there. when I look at that, always, you know, when I look at it, or the way I see it, maybe I’m different now because I’m more on the, I don’t know what’s called the sidelines, because I’m now in university. I’m not, you know, running to an office every day. But

 

25:57

that CEO or C-suite or president who maybe is, I don’t know,  50s, late 50s, 60s, maybe 70s, whatever. I guess they don’t have to change, but as I always say, you’re gonna lose great talent, great people. You’re not gonna be able to keep them. these are your future leaders.  You can’t hold off any longer. Every year, millions and millions and millions of Gen Zers are graduating and joining the workplace.  it’s not like boomers are coming back next year.

 

26:23

I mean, there’s some just great data on now as as Gen Z years become increasingly a bigger part of the workplace by 2030, there’ll be at least 30%, at least 30%. So again, even if we talk agency world and you had a, we’ll call it a mid-size agency of a hundred folks, know, 30, 32, 35 are going to be people born after 1997. Uh, and less and less are going to be people born in 1967 or 1960 or whatever. Right. So I think that’s the point is like, they’re here.

 

26:53

They’re They’re coming and they’re coming year after year after year after year. And next day after that is going to be Gen Alpa. And they’re even going to be, think, further down the line as far as this idea of being able to work remotely and use technology and all those kinds of things. So there was a really good, I won’t name their name, but a really good company in Louisiana that had me come down twice. The CEO, who I think is of the company, I don’t want to say his age because I may be off, but let’s just say he’s probably late 60s, maybe early 70s and the president I think is 63 or 64. I really was inspired by the fact that like, you know,

 

27:22

Yeah, we are older leaders, right? We don’t change. We’re not going to have great people working for us anymore. It’s our way or the highway. And so I really appreciate they invited me down twice to Louisiana to talk to their entire company or their leaders of their company, which were a variety of leaders from Gen Z or from Millennials to X-Ris and Boomers. But they had the wherewithal, at least, of like, we can’t stick with the way we did things in 2010, 2015.

 

27:48

2019, right? We have to change. And so I think part of that’s a mindset, right?  As opposed to the mindset of it’s my way or the highway. And again, you can take that, but I think you’re going to lose great, great, town, great people.  And that’s to me, there’s a price to that, right? If  all of a sudden they’re leaving because they don’t like the way you’re still doing, as that fast company story said, you you’re kind of old style of leadership and your old style of business. So it goes back to again, transform, innovate, evolve.

 

28:17

And so it’s really interesting where we are right now, because I do get the question a lot, well, are going to go back to five days a week? And my reaction is no. I mean, but we are seeing some companies are forcing that, but I think the grand scheme of things, no. And I think it’s not going to happen tomorrow, but as Gen Zers, although I know one already, as Gen Zers become leaders, I have one who I’m really impressed by, Andrew. He’s probably 26 or 27. He’s the CEO of a research company that only focuses on Gen Z.

 

28:45

The entire company is virtual. He has employees in West Coast, East Coast, South West. That to me is kind of the company of the future as far as that idea of just you can be, we want the best talent, they can be anywhere in the world because they can simply just do their work right from that laptop. So, all right. So we talked about the leaders. So I’m going to ask maybe a sticky question, but one we get faced with a lot, which is there’s a perception, let’s just call it a perception, that

 

29:14

this generation,  some of them, feels like showing up for work is enough.  And we’ve experienced some of this with some of our clients and helping them with how do you then  address that? Because for me, that’s always a mindset thing, right? And so where does it come from? And then what do do about it? Because

 

29:40

They’re also a portion of the workforce. And while we all love top performers and go-getters, and it sounds like so many of your students really thriving, there’s also that contingent of the workforce. So I would love some perspective on that side of things.  I’ve always said, I get this question a lot, I’ve always said, I don’t think there’s anything changed. think every generation has always, I think millennials, I recall very, very well when they showed up like.

 

30:05

They want work-life balance. They don’t want to work as many hours. I feel like every generation has always gotten a bad rap when they started because they were the new kids on the block. And I just think they’ve always gotten a bad rap. So I think within every generation, and I’ll make sure I’ll say this correctly, you’ve got, as you said, you’ve got your top performers. You’ve got a lot of folks that are, yeah, I’m here just to get the paycheck and I’m going get the job done. And you’ve got probably folks on the other end of the spectrum like, hopefully they don’t fire me tomorrow. I think every generation is that way.

 

30:33

I don’t think there’s any change there. just think because they’re the new generation and they’re under the spotlight. Some of that pressure is off millennials, but they have that pressure. We’ll call it 10, 15 years ago. And now the pressure is on Gen Z and they’re going to have that pressure for another 10, 12 years until Gen Alpha joins. And then everyone will be bad mouthing Gen Alpha as the lazy ones, the entitled ones, the ones that don’t work. So I’m thinking maybe these are out, but I just think every generation has gotten that bad rap when they join the workplace because they were the new generation in the workplace.

 

31:02

You know, they they like I go back to millennials again. You know, I talked about them as the MVPs in the bridge. Well, if I remember correctly, I think it’s millennials who really. Ushered in  and forced organizations to take a closer look at this thing called work life balance, because I don’t think there was any work life balance of it, and I still think that’s that’s not something we’re always. It’s not. There’s no finish line there. I think we’re always striving for that, but like I think they  know this is really important. We need to start focusing on this because part of that I don’t think it was even in the you know.

 

31:31

the lexicon of work of this thing called work life balance, just like I don’t think mental health was ever in the lexicon until post say 2020. And now with Gen Z and it’s such a big focus here for them, it’s becoming more of an important focus. And we see some employers responding to that. So I’m saying easy way out by just saying, think every generation has gotten the bad rap as they joined. And I think every generation has, again, top performers, has middle of the road and has some folks on the other end.

 

31:59

I just, look at it that from that perspective as well. And I don’t think it’s just a Gen Z thing. Well, and I’ll comment on the millennial work-life balance thing because I’m the older part of the generation. I mean, for me, I was  again agency and you’re expected to perform at a certain level, right? But  I mean, I was at one point driving from downtown Cincinnati to Dayton on the days that I was in town and that I was traveling.

 

32:23

predominant portion of my work too. And I distinctly remember the battle I had to go through to say, if I’m in town on Fridays, I’m going to stay home and work from my house,  had to go all the way to the CEO of the organization to get approved.  Right? And so  one, I mean, I think, yes, it paved the way for others to be able to do the same. within that organization, we did a pretty good job of, if you’re doing your job and performing well, then  there is an opportunity for that, but this is not a blanket thing.

 

32:52

But I remember the entrance of that too, whereas now I’m like, I mean, that seems like such a crazy archaic thing with where we are today. So I think think the advancements have been made. Maybe they haven’t been set in stone and they’re in the official guide to how you work. But I think the idea of exactly that or, you know, I know we all experienced this, so I’m not saying you never know. You get in on a red eye at 6 a.m. and they expect you to be at work by 8.30. Oh, yeah. In today’s world. No, no, no.

 

33:19

Today’s world now I will be working from home and no one will question it. But in those days, what do you mean you’re working from home? You know, don’t take a shower and get to work. So I least we’ve evolved in advance somewhat in that area by completely you get you almost laugh at some of the things you did back in the night to say, but the 90s in the 2000s as far as working to your point to get permission or I need to leave today at five o’clock. Oh, you better. You’re gonna have to get permission for that. You can’t leave at five o’clock.

 

33:45

Well, it’s really funny you bring up the flight thing because we were traveling on spring break and got trapped with all the storms going on and  we were walking through the airport 310 in the morning and I had a distinct memory of exactly what you just said where we landed from London  and we were late and I was supposed to go to date in the next day and I was counting the hours of sleep I was going to get and how fast I could get home so that I could get there. So yes,  yes, very.

 

34:12

very recent revisit of that situation. But I have one more question for you to bring home kind of what we were talking about, the generations. on the other side of that, one of the things we talk about a lot too is what do people miss by not being in the office and how can they go find those things? So one of the big things that, like I mentioned before, people asking like, how do get the experience you had? One of the ways we coach people to get people back in the office is you want exposure to the leadership.

 

34:42

and you want to be present. And if you’re in the city of the home office, that should be an advantage, not a penalized situation. And so to kind of change that of like, you’re going to get things that aren’t quantifiable by being present. How do you talk about all of that? So I go back to, again, this thing I call H.I. human interaction. I think it’s incredibly powerful and valuable. And so even if you’re in a remote  work situation or, you know, you can work from home as much as you want.

 

35:11

Don’t just do that. Like take advantage of getting into that office. It can be on your time and your schedule. Take advantage of FaceTime. I think we get so much more done in 60 minutes of face to face than you do in six months of emails back and forth or Zoom calls back and forth. So a real big believer in that human interaction and taking advantage of face to face. I think it Annabert up here, water cooler. And as you say, don’t even think Gen Z knows what a water cooler is. I probably don’t. But the idea of the water cooler, right? I call it cup of coffee meetings.

 

35:39

so valuable, so valuable than just simply, you we’re just gonna keep commuting through video conference and email and Slack and text and whatever else. So that’s something I share all the time is, don’t underestimate HI, don’t underestimate human interaction, create those opportunities for yourself and, you know, maybe next week instead of that meeting through Zoom and I do this all the time, you know.

 

36:04

Hey, why don’t I just make the trip in? Why don’t we just do the meeting in person? We’ll probably get a lot done there. I just think there’s so much that to your point can come out of that April. And so that’s, guess, at a top level, at least one of the things I always strongly suggest is even if you’re allowed to work five days a week, don’t just rely on that because it’s, I don’t call it passive. That’s not the right word, but it’s just like be proactive and like, you know, ask for a meeting or ask for the cup of coffee or ask for the water cooler discussion or whatever, because so much more can come out of that by just having that shared experience of being together.

 

36:34

being with each other and all those kind of things. So big believer in that. Yeah. And if I was going to get on my tide box for a second, which is my my branded soap box. Yes. So you got that one right away. I got one. You got one. You what I what I’ve noticed is that there is a something’s not aligning right on the values, especially when it comes to what is necessary in order to produce good work. So like even going back to the very beginning of the conversation, you were talking about like the working harder, not

 

37:04

smarter was kind of like how we all internalized how to be successful. And we started to coin things that  went along with that. for example, if you ask a Gen Xer, you know, how was your day? Oh, it busy. It was so busy, you know, right. And it’s just like it’s a badge of honor. I was just busy.  Aren’t you supposed to be busy? You are getting a paycheck to work, right? But it’s like a badge of honor. If you ask like a Gen Z or how their workday was, it would probably give you

 

37:32

Oh, I worked on this. I worked on that. Like it wasn’t me. Oh, it was just it was just so busy. So there seems to be like a miss in what we each value in terms of what is a successful work day that I think is kind of leading us down to some of these like these tensions and then some of the reasons for the tensions.

 

37:55

Like when we were talking about the tools, I think the tools have been a very big thing. Like when you said even in the HI thing, which I’m going to ask that in the context of this question here in a second, is like, I can see a gens here. Well, why do I even need to do that? I mean, if I can slack you, if I can IM you, why do we even need to have a face? Because I don’t even get it. Like, what’s the point? to what you were saying before, this is how they’ve been raised. They’ve had to do it without that. So why all of sudden do I need that?

 

38:20

And then on the other side, have the Gen Xers and Gen Yers and the mature millennials saying, oh, it’s these cell phones. These cell phones have killed  this generation, right? They’re always on their phones. They’re always doing everything on their phones. They’re TikToking. They’re snapping and all this stuff. They don’t even have real conversations anymore. Why aren’t they going outside and playing like normal children used to do in my age and stuff like that? we start to kind of assign our values of like, we went outside and played when we weren’t grinding at work, right?

 

38:49

There’s like this value thing that just seems to be like missing and so I just love for you to give us your perspective on that like the tools and the phones and  the lack of needing or something like they need the the  human interaction like like what’s going on there and is it us projecting our values on them  or is it really truly truly needed you know a bunch of things there but I there were a few that I really want to hit on one was I Completely agree with you. We placed value again. We

 

39:19

old GenXers like me, we place value on the number of hours in the office, not the experience of what we did. And I love how you position that. It was a long day. It was a tough day. It was a hard day. I got in there at eight. I didn’t leave until eight. The Gen Zs are like, man, I worked on this cool campaign today. I got to hang out with the chief creative officer. We were coming up with ideas for XYZ client. One of my students came in, a former student came in yesterday, and she’s at an agency. She’s been there about a year and a half. And everything was just about.

 

39:46

the fun, the coolness, the this, the that, working on this, coming up with that, these ideas,  identifying  social media influencers for her clients who are leading  spirits brands and leading consumer brands. And not once did she say something like, and I’m bored or I’m tired or I’m working too hard. So I agree, there’s this idea that I always say like we placed value on the hours you went to the office, not what you did when you were there. And that goes back to that whole harder, smarter thing too.

 

40:12

You’re going to get a raise, Anne, because you showed up at eight every day this month and you didn’t leave till late. So we’re going to give you a raise. But the other guy down the hall, he’s not getting a raise because he showed up every day at 8.59 and he left.  that value system there.  do think they value, I think it does come back to like, they do value, I know they value, like what I call experiences. And so experiences can be virtual, but they also can be in person. All my undergraduate courses are all in person.  I guess part of that’s because I think there’s great value in that.  And I think at the undergraduate level.

 

40:41

It just makes a lot of sense. graduate students, most of my graduate students are working full-time  or interning. So for them to work all day and then trudge into the campus at seven o’clock at night, it’s just much easier to do Zoom sessions than that. So with the undergrads, not that they’re not interning or working part-time, but they’re at least on the campus or near the campus and they’re living on the campus where the grad students typically aren’t. And so I love  the experience in the classroom and trying to really give them the experience. I’ll make it real quick on this one.

 

41:11

So in one of my four hundred level marketing classes, Warner Brothers and their Max Streaming service is our client this semester. And so Max has brought all their executives into our classroom, briefed the students, assigned them the challenge, gave them the assignment, and they’re all going to come back at the end of the semester and they’re to, students are going to have present to the Max executives. So to me, that’s like, that’s a great experience I’m having right here. I’m meeting these people face to face. I’m shaking their hands and all that. And then I have another class, a four hundred level experiential marketing class that we, I launched in 22 and just

 

41:40

Tomorrow, the students of which there’s 25 students in the class, we create, we have a campaign and we run the campaign, run it across a paid or shared and owned. We create a ton of content, we go out and get sponsors. And then tomorrow is the culmination and we are going to produce and host our fourth annual music festival with probably 3000 attendees, including major sponsors. And this is all on horse. Like, so the students are like, they love this in person, working, rolling the sleeves off. mean,

 

42:10

The majority of them will be on site tomorrow from 9 a.m. until about 7 p.m. running this whole event. And at the end of the day, hopefully putting a nice bow on it. So  I do think they see value in what I call experiences. used to call them Instagramable experiences. Now I just call them experiences.  So those could be experiences at workplace, internships  or experiences they just have with the brand  kind of thing. I think there is they do see some value in that kind of those experiences. Yeah, I mean, as you guys were talking, I.

 

42:38

I feel like I’m going to be the bridge here, Mark, to your point.  Because what I was thinking about is,  and to your point about value, it’s not that they don’t want to show up. They don’t want to show up when they don’t think it’s valuable. And I remember sitting in that exact seat where I would travel anywhere in the world.

 

42:58

I mean, I went to work at Interbrand specifically because I knew I was going to be able to do all this travel. But what would make me mad is when it was 3 p.m. on a Thursday and I had nothing left to do and I was supposed to sit in my chair until 5 15 because that was when we were allowed to leave the office. And so  I really love the point about the experiences and the fact that I think there’s shared value there, I guess, is what I’m trying to say. Like, I feel like that’s a place  that.

 

43:25

we can connect regardless of generation on how we can all show up and have enthusiasm for what we’re doing. Because  it’s not lost on me that you’re like, you know, they’re going to come from nine to seven tomorrow and they’re going to be fine with it versus that being the everyday expectation when there’s no reason to have to be there. And so I think finding that balance, mean, Anne and I talk all the time about currency with people, but I’ve never quite thought about it.

 

43:52

in terms of experience and building that. And I think that’s a great way to think through,  you know, and maybe it’s more work on your end as the professor to build the classes this way, but the value is so much more for them that they don’t come kicking and screaming. They really want to be a part of it. First of all, April is the millennial bridge. So let’s make sure we know that she is the millennial.  There was a great Wall Street Journal article about a year ago that I use in my presentations and it was the.

 

44:20

Majority owner of the Utah Jazz who said, experience  is the currency of business today and most organizations should have a chief experience officer because the idea of experience. And as you were chatting there, April, one of the thoughts I had was many of my students who’ve returned to guest lecture. know, what they’ll tell me is it hits on that point that you talked about that idea that all of sudden, you know, kind of caught up in my work. They’ll say, you know, when I’m working from home,  I actually probably put even more hours because I don’t have to get on the train and commute. So I might start work at seven or whatever time.

 

44:50

But if at 10 o’clock or 12 noon or one, always have a break in the action. I’ll go for a run. I’ll go for a walk. I’ll go do something for my mental health and feel really good about it because actually I am caught up, but I don’t, I’m not leaving the office. I’m going to probably still work till 10 o’clock that night, but I can kind of do what I want to do because all of a sudden I have this one hour window where I can actually go out and don’t have a meeting, don’t have a call, don’t have anything. And I can actually go do something for myself. And so they see great value in that the idea of when I’m on kind of my schedule.

 

45:19

working from home. I have a schedule, but there’s windows there where I’m not just sitting at a cube staring at a computer. I can go off and walk, run, workout, whatever it might be. Yeah, I love what you said there, April, and how you built on that, Mark, because I think that is super important because again, it’s something that we couldn’t even fathom. Like a lot of people would go for a run at lunch, which I was always jealous of because I couldn’t because

 

45:43

I didn’t have to do my hair again. I’d have to do my makeup again. So all the men could go out and run, but like I couldn’t and I couldn’t work out. So like, was I going to fit that in, in my 10 hour day of PNG and then, you know, coming home and being a mom, right? So now having my own business, that flexibility is there, but I would say my hours that I work are more focused and more concentrated and I get way more done in the hours that I’m focused on work. Plus since my, my energy, I’m managing my energy throughout the day.

 

46:10

And this is the thing that we tell these leaders all the time. It’s like, let them, if they want it to work and they want to go run for the military, let them, you’re probably going to get more out of them. Set accountability factors, set expectations. When does the deliverable have to be done? What’s the quality of the deliverable? And set the timing and send in some checkpoints and then get out of the way. And then let them show you that they can be adults. If they can’t, then that’s another conversation.

 

46:38

But until then, let them prove that they can actually manage this  in the realm of  still trying to build the right culture. Because I mean,  guess what’s coming? We have Generation Alpha. they’re going to be,  if I was going it, air quotes, worse.  Because their expectations, I mean, they’ve grown up now with AI.

 

46:57

So they’re gonna be like, everybody serves me, right? I mean, that’s what I’ve been taught, right? So I’d love if you could give some perspective of how now Gen Zers are probably gonna become the bridge between Generation Alpha and the Millennials. And like, what do people expect even with this new generation coming up? Yeah, I think to your point, we’re gonna have a really interesting workplace in,  well, let’s say in about 12 years, 11, 12 years when Gen Alpha joins, because by then Millennials will be in all the leadership positions.

 

47:27

Some of the older Gen Zers will be in somewhat leadership, right? They’ll be making their way up there.  so,  yeah, fly a better word, the boomers and the extras are gone. But yeah, pretty much there.  And now you’ve got millennials, Gen Z and then Gen Alpha. So you’ve got now even more between Gen Z and Gen Alpha who are, again, grew up with technology in the palm of their hands since they were children. Millennials who I said ushered in this whole idea of work-life balance. It’s gonna be a really interesting time. I think it’s gonna be a great time.  I look forward to it. I’m not that I wanna rush.

 

47:56

the calendar, but I look forward to it because I think it’s just going to be, it’s going to be completely different than as you kind of hit on in earlier, you know, the traditional workplace 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s. I don’t think it’s going to look, it’s not going look anything like that by the time we get into 20, let’s just say, call it 35, you know, it’s going to be just completely different because all those generations, especially Gen Z and Gen Apple have grown up in just a completely different place.

 

48:25

with different technology,  more remote experiences, remote learning, remote work, all those kinds of things. So definitely very interesting, but I think incredibly dynamic and innovative. Yeah. I mean, I’ll just give a quick anecdote to that. So my kids are nine and six and we were just on vacation. And as I said, and they don’t remember a time where they couldn’t just say, Google. Yeah, true.  We were in the hotel room and it came out of my son’s mouth. And then he realized he’s like the, Google isn’t here.

 

48:55

It’s a great example though because it’s technology technology they’ve just Naturally adopted and used it’s not like they went to a course to work They just grew up on so they’re so used to it. Yeah, I completely go with it. Oh, that’s awesome Well, this has been a fabulous conversation. I feel like we’ve been everywhere and if somebody Listening to this can’t take away  multiple different

 

49:23

insights for how to reshape their environment to accommodate Gen Z, then I don’t know. mean, this was jam-packed full. But before we let you close this out, Mark, are you open to some rapid fires? I am. I that I can answer them now. They’re not the simple ones like how do you take your coffee? So I’ll just offer that caveat. My little fun fact is I’ve never had coffee in my life. That’s my fun fact. Oh. I’m a tea drinker. Oh.

 

49:53

Well, I don’t like coffee. So  I only had to drink it when I had to when I worked at Folgers or for Folgers, but I don’t like it and don’t drink it. Don’t like it in anything. Don’t like espresso martinis. Don’t like coffee flavored ice creams. Don’t like any of that. Wow. I think so. But I’m a tea drinker too. So we bond on that.  First one. I know you’re in New Jersey and there’s a lot of

 

50:20

feelings about New Jersey, mainly, know, the best thing about New Jersey is the view of New York City, right? So besides that, what is a hidden gem of New Jersey that you would want to share with everybody? You know, it’s funny you bring that up. It’s a real, in fact, I’ll make this real fast, it’s rapid fire. One of my current students, talk about Gen Zers and how I’m so inspired by Gen Zers. He’s a junior, he’s a singer songwriter. He has an agent in LA. He leaves class every Thursday and goes, does a concert in.

 

50:48

Chicago, Nashville, Gainesville, Toronto. I was in Toronto last week. He’s amazing. Anyway, the New Jersey State Department of Tourism, Adam is the star of their commercial this past year and the whole theme was called WOW. And so he signed this whole WOW song, but he was 20 years old. He was the star of the commercial. And you can look that up. You can look up New Jersey Tourism, their WOW campaign that he was at. I think it’s just the diversity of the state. It’s your point. Most people know the state as probably…

 

51:15

The city Newark airport overlooking New York Newark and all that, but you know, I, take my bike and go out West, which not far. Everything is very close. Go out an hour and I’m on trails along the Delaware river through mountains.  Uh, just feel like I’m in the middle of the country somewhere and I’m nowhere near a city environment. So I love that. And then of course, I actually live on the waters. I walk out the back of my house, I’m on the water. So, uh, I spend  six months out of the year, including this past Saturday.

 

51:43

just being on the water, paddleboarding, boating, swimming, doing all that kind of fun stuff. And so that’s something I love to do here. So yeah, it’s a state that’s much more than just, again, Newark Airport and the commute into New York City. There’s a lot more it has to offer. I love that. Thank you. What are you reading and watching now? Watching. trying to do, I think going back to that, going back to my comment about I brought Max in as a client in one of my classes. I’ve spent the last

 

52:12

three, four or five months trying to really better understand the streaming landscape. And so I’m really doing a lot of, I’m trying to better understand Max, of course, because the relationship, but just, you know, Max verse Apple verse Amazon verse Netflix verse Hulu verse Roku, all those kinds of things. Because that’s where Gen Zers and Gen Alpha, that’s what they’re really tuning into. I see this all the time. I do mean it. They don’t know what Good Morning America is. They don’t know what the Today Show is.

 

52:41

I know for us those are big. And they’re not going to magically when they turn 35 turn those things on. They consume streaming, so I’m always just looking for new series, new documentaries, new streaming.  I think the one I’m probably on right now, of course I can’t remember the name,  but it’s the one where. Going on starter, she plays the she basically playing Genie Bus, the owner of the Lakers, but it’s not the Lakers  in the middle of that right now. I like that a lot.

 

53:10

And then White Lotus, I can’t get enough of White Lotus. have to catch up tonight on the, I never, Sunday night I always go to bed early. So I didn’t see it Sunday night. So tonight I’ll catch up on it. I can’t get enough of that. Of course that is on Macs. And I always love just seeing. So when I go into my classes, I do 15, 20 minutes, what I call real time, real world marketing, news, pop culture. And so we’ll dive into things like White Lotus and  who’s watching it. What do you think? What do you know? And so we just get a sense of what I say to them always. say, you need to be culturally intelligent. You just have to have your pulse on.

 

53:41

you’re asking here,  music, entertainment, news, sports,  what’s trending on TikTok and those things. Because when you go for a job interview, if it’s anything in marketing, they’re probably going to ask you, hey, so what do you think about what this brand did on TikTok or what about this brand’s campaign? So we dedicate a solid 20 minutes at the start of every class to those kinds of things. I love that. Last one since we’ve talked about side hustles  and that’s a big Gen Z thing. Do you have a side hustle? Or if you don’t, what would be your side hustle if you…

 

54:07

I do have, I do definitely have side hustles.  So my full time, you know, I guess my day job nowadays is as a full time professor at Rutgers University where every semester I’m teaching at least four courses, fall, spring and summer. Winter I teach a course over the winter holidays. So I’m probably teaching about 13, 14 courses a year.  I’m also advising the student run marketing and public relations agency. So I serve in that role and obviously do a few other things.  So I guess my side hustle, at least now is like.

 

54:35

I love it. It’s, you know, being invited by companies, organizations, conferences, universities to deliver keynote speeches. I probably average about one every two weeks, I think. And so I just love whether it’s on Zoom or it’s physically in person. I prefer in person. I think it’s great because I’ve probably delivered over 250 since 2019 just at a recent, just at a TEDx talk not too long ago. And so I just enjoy getting on stage and delivering insights and engaging with the audience and having fun with that. So.

 

55:04

I guess that is my side hustle.  really am an aspiring songwriter.  I’ve written a few songs, nothing out there, but I just,  that’s something where it’s just a different form of creativity than just book writing. And so that’s something that I really want to start focusing on. Like I want to go to songwriting classes and do things like that.  So that’s something I’ll do maybe in my next, my next 30 years. I wrote one too and had it recorded. I love that. I’ve got to get my recorded. was hoping I wrote a few and I thought one will be recorded by now, but I have to shop it.

 

55:32

Well, I only had it recorded as a demo. Like I haven’t had a recording artist take it to be just totally transparent, but I had it recorded as a demo, but nobody’s picked it up yet. But I just like, like I’m just a big fan of that whole process. Cause again, even going back to the brands and agencies, just, the ideation, the words, the theme.  So to me it’s all, it’s a creative process and I love that process. I’d love to have more exposure to that process. I love it. All right, Mark, this was  awesome.

 

56:00

Anything else to wrap us up and bring us home? And of course, tell people where to find me. I’ll finish on one note to tie it tied in maybe. I don’t think I brought this up earlier. So I refer to Gen Z as a CEO. Maybe I brought this up, but I say this all the time. One of the titles of my book was a CEO introducing Gen Z the next generation. I tell employers all the time, empower your CEO, empower your 2021 year old interns, empower your 22, 23, 24, 25 year old.

 

56:31

executives, you’re going to be delighted with what they come to you with. So if there’s been that kind of thing you’ve been wanting to try, but you keep pushing to the side, we don’t have time for it, give them a shot. Or there’s this technology that you’ve heard about, but we just don’t have time to give them a chance at it. You’ll really be surprised at what your CEOs can do. And so there are some companies out there that to me have kind of, not that they use that term, but

 

56:57

They’ve done with that approach of, let’s empower these 22, three, 40 year olds. And who knows? They might come up with our next great product or our next great content campaign or whatever it might be. So empower your ZEOS. I always say they’re going to cure cancer. They’re going to do that. And where can people find you? Yeah, I’ve got to get my books are all on Amazon. So just if you go to Amazon, type in Mark Beale, B-E-I-L. I’ve got 10 books, four on Gen Z, three or four on career, one on transitioning from college to career.

 

57:26

Those are kind of the topics that I focus on  And so they’re all nine designs simply just type my name and mark feel and you’ll find all the books and then I’ve got a website just mark feel speaks calm which has a lot of my My text talk and some other things on it. Awesome. All right Everybody you guys need to look up mark have them come in. guys will not be disappointed And with that we encourage you to take at least one profile insight you’ve heard and put it into practice Remember strategic counsel is only effective be put into action

 

57:54

Did we spark something with this episode that you want to talk about further?  Reach out to us through our website, ForthRight-People.com.  We can help you customize what you have heard to move your business  and make sure to follow or subscribe to Strategic Counsel on your favorite podcast platform!