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4 Ways to Create Sales Funnels That Convert with Alisha Conlin-Hurd, Persuasion Experience: Show Notes & Transcript

Post | Jan 31, 2023

Welcome back to Marketing Smarts! From brand-building and marketing veterans Anne Candido and April Martini (that’s us) comes a podcast committed to cutting through all the confusing marketing BS so you can actually understand how to take action and change your business today. We deep-dive into topics most would gloss-over, infusing real-world examples from our combined 35+ years of corporate and agency experience. We tell it how it is so whether you are just starting out or have been in business awhile, you have the Marketing Smarts to immediately impact your business.

In this episode, we’re talking sales funnels that convert with guest Alisha Conlin-Hurd, Co-Founder of Persuasion Experience. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review if you’re exercising your Marketing Smarts!

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Marketing Smarts: 4 Ways to Create Sales Funnels That Convert with Alisha Conlin-Hurd, Persuasion Experience

Converting leads is one of the biggest challenges businesses have. It can be tough to get attention, and even tougher to convert that attention to revenue. When creating your sales funnels, it’s important to keep humans first, be mindful where and how you use automation, make it easy for your target to say “yes,” and have strong social proof. We wanted to speak with someone who truly knows how to make all these things work together, so we welcomed on Alisha Conlin-Hurd. She’s the Co-Founder of Persuasion Experience, the “post click” growth agency who makes your marketing actually convert. This episode covers everything from sales funnels to house-building metaphors. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

  • How do you create sales funnels that convert?
  • What success rates should you expect to have?
  • How do you keep the humans first?
  • Should automation play a part?
  • What are drip campaigns?
  • How does SEO play into funnels?
  • What sparks social proof?
  • How do you make it easy for your target to say yes?

And as always, if you need help in building your Marketing Smarts, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at:

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:

Show Notes

What is Marketing Smarts?

From brand-building and marketing veterans Anne Candido and April Martini comes a podcast committed to cutting through all the confusing marketing BS so you can actually understand how to take action and change your business today. They deep-dive into topics most would gloss-over, infusing real-world examples from their combined 35+ years of corporate and agency experience. They tell it how it is so whether you are just starting out or have been in business awhile, you have the Marketing Smarts to immediately impact your business.

How do I exercise my Marketing Smarts?

Thanks for listening to Marketing Smarts. Get in touch here to become a savvier marketer. 


Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

Anne Candido 0:02
This is Marketing Smarts – a podcast committed to helping you become a savvier marketing leader, no matter your level. In each episode, we will dive into a relevant topic or challenge that marketing leaders are currently facing. We will also give you practical tools and applications that will help you put what you learn into practice today. And if you missed anything, don’t worry, we put worksheets on our website that summarize the key points. Now, let’s get to it. Welcome to Marketing Smarts! I’m Anne Candido, and I am April Martini. And today we’re gonna talk about how to create sales funnels that convert. So converting leads is probably one of the biggest challenges businesses have if you’ve been on your LinkedIn or email today, you probably already gotten many cold calls from an agency who claims they can generate hundreds and 1000s and 10 1000s leads, you know, and that might be great. But if you don’t know what to go do with them, and you can’t quickly pull them into your funnel and get them qualified, then it’s kind of all useless. And then on top of that, once you actually get them in the funnel, yes, you want to keep them in the funnel, get them down to make a purchase, and then actually make them repurchase. So it’s all a process.

April Martini 1:10
Yes, exactly. It is a process. And just because you may not have been paying attention to it, it doesn’t mean it’s not there. In that case, it’s just operating as a default. And it’s really like what we say about personal brand, which is if you don’t define it, someone else is going to define it for you, which means your funnel may not be operating as efficiently or as effectively or both, as it could be and honestly this applies both to b2c and b2b. The philosophy is really similar, even if what you’re selling is completely different. So we’ll have broad application on this episode today.

Anne Candido 1:44
Yep. And for this topic, we’re bringing in a special guest, Alisha Conlin-Hurd. She’s a Co-Founder of Persuasion Experience, and we’re happy to have her here. And Alisha, why don’t you introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about Yeah.

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 1:57
Okay, I’ll give the the brief origin story. So thank you for having me, Anne & April. So basically, my career has been in sales, and digital marketing. And where I started was very much in sales funnels. So I’ve done SEO, I’ve got some yellow page links if you’re in Australia, and that’s basically just a business listing on a crappy website. But where I, so don’t come to me for SEO, but at persuasion experience, we exclusively focus on the post click experience, and we focus on the psychology behind why somebody buys from you. So during my career I’ve built over 450 Getting close to 500 landing pages and, and yeah, everything from Brazilian Butt Lift doctors and porn addiction counselors, I’ve worked with male strippers all the way to big homebuilders, big banks, you know, in persuasion experience we’ve worked with like Link tree and whitefly a big billion dollar tech companies. But it doesn’t matter if you’re a mom and pop. Or if you’re a billion dollar brand, you have to be customer obsessed. And so what we do is come in and we use consumer insights and research to understand why someone buys from you. And then we translate that into strategy, and executed into funnels that can persuade them at scale. So there’s the somewhat fast origin story and rundown.

Anne Candido 3:22
No, I love it. And I think that’s the first time I’ve heard a stripper business being called mama Pop Shop. Yeah.

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 3:28
Well, I don’t know if that was the moment. He was, he was more of a pop, like just.

Anne Candido 3:35
Fair enough. Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. All right, so awesome. Let’s get into how to create sales funnels that convert. So the very first point is don’t let the data overshadow the fact that your consumers, your customers, your clients are humans first. And we use this point quite often, because in this world of digital marking, and funnel conversion is something that people tend to forget, especially when they get so obsessed with traffic numbers. And I think that’s the thing that when I was in the intro was alluding to when you talk about hundreds and 1000s and 10s, of 1000s of leads, you start to fall in love and get really romanticize about the number of people you’re pulling into your funnel. But the reality of the situation is, is when you’re just going to treat people like numbers on spreadsheets, you’re gonna have a really, really, really hard time pulling them down the funnel. And that’s because we aren’t robots. And I say this all the time until the world is run by robots, there’s gonna be a person on the other side of the sale. And if you refuse to create a relationship with that person, you’re not going to create all those brand love connections, you need those relationships, you need those emotional connections you need in order to pull people down the funnel. And also the big mistake a lot of people make when they fall in love with all these lead gen numbers is that they believe that they only need that like they need the one engagement. That’s all I need. I just need to get to them once and then I’m going to be able to convert them and that’s not really the case. Usually it takes four I had to seven times to basically surround that person, or that customer, your whoever your target is, in order for them to really like fall in love with your brand in order for them to really realize, hey, maybe this is something that I want. And this is not your Google as a high frequency just like banging down the door, this is really courting them, just like you would in any relationship. So if you’re thinking about how you’re supposed to really question or questions, you might be asking yourself and wanted to think about how do I actually build these relationships or find out how to make those connections, I’m going to give you a few. And then I’m going to ask Alicia to build here, because she has a lot of really good information on this. So first is what angst is your target field that you can help to solve and this is the emotional need. This is not just your product service benefit need, right? This is how you create those emotional connections, those relationships, again, to pull people down the funnel that makes them feel like you’re there for them. You also want to think about what questions they’re gonna have, where will they be skeptical? Where are they need to be nudged a little bit. This involves getting into the heads of your target. And thinking like they do this is how you can be proactive and anticipating where they might have little hiccups along the way. You want to figure out how you can personalize your communications, so they know you are talking to them. Or sometimes we feel like we need to be very broad in order to capture a wide audience. But what really happens is that people don’t know you’re really talking to them, because you haven’t related to them and a level they really understand or appreciate. And then you don’t know when to understand when and where did they spend their time, so you can figure out where you need to engage them. If you make it too hard for these people, they are not going to want to engage with you, your ability to close a lead is exponential to the amount of work that they have to go do. So I’m gonna stop talking for a second, Alisha, I know you’re the expert here. So I’m going to ask you to build and add in all these other really great nuances you have for how you get people from point A to point B.

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 6:52
Yeah, and the first place to start is one understanding your target market, right, and we’re all on the same page there. And the way to do that is to talk to them. And that’s what a lot of businesses don’t do. Like I will work with CEOs or founders or marketing managers, and also how many clients can you name 10 5100 Because that’s how many you should be able to name and understand them. And and having a really clear whether it’s an ICP or a target market avatar, so that’s the place to start. It’s a bit unsexy, I think for people so people don’t do it or, or they’ll say, yeah, it’s it’s businesses with 40 employees that are making 2 million. That’s, that’s facts, right? Like, that’s not like, what keeps me up at night? Or what pain points or am am I having. And so the most important thing for businesses to realize is we don’t sell a product or a service, we sell entry into a desired after state. Trust me when I say nobody wakes up in the morning and wants a funnel, like no one’s like, gee whiz, everybody wants traffic, traffic, people eat first. That’s what we say, in the in the conversion world. And no one’s like, I really want to spend 40 grand on a funnel, but they need to, because as you said, You have won by default, right? And your funnels, just every touchpoint somebody has with your brand, and all those touch points like revenue. So one of the first things we work with our clients on is just this one question, what are you really selling? And what happens is you can start to take your marketing away from being a big feature spew of this is about us, me, me, me, look at us, this is how great we are. And you start to connect that and contextualize the benefits of what you actually do. And contextualize it into the lives of your target market. And actually make it make sense where it’s like, Oh, that is where I want to go. And you had just a vehicle to get there. And you’re one of many. And for most people, they think that they have all these competitors, right? But really like your main competitor is inertia or the old school way of doing anything, especially with the tech companies we work with, like usually, when you’re motivating someone, it’s like, not Hey, work with me, because I’m better than this coach. It’s like, actually, you’ve heard horror stories about coaches, and you probably don’t think it’s worth it. He’s the motivational the persuasion to knock you out of your inertia, which just means you don’t take any action effectively. So yeah, that’s how I would build on that.

April Martini 9:12
I love that. Yeah, I mean, I think it is so important. And we talk often about not forcing your narrative down the consumers throat but thinking about what they actually want to hear from you and what matters to them. And I think the point you just made is huge, because I do you think so often, companies are talking to themselves or their competition. I mean, we had this situation locally with healthcare marketing, here in Cincinnati, and I see it nationally to have where they’re, you know, boasting on their awards and their accolades. And we have the best physician that does X, Y, and Z. And meanwhile, the consumers like I have no idea what that means to me. Right. So I think your point is, so well taken around this idea of like what actually is the comp attrition versus what is the pain point? What is the consumer facing and that they’re like to the point like keeping you up at night? What are those things? And I think that the reason that people don’t do this work is because it seems so hard, right? And it seems like you have to invest a lot of time. And it’s like, I’m in my business every day. So of course, I know who’s who I’m serving. And a lot of what I was hearing you guys saying is, it’s really the difference between qual and quant or psychographic and demographic, right? So when you say something like, oh, it’s, you know, this business that has this 40 people and makes however many millions of dollars, those are the demographics, they have nothing to do with the actual people on the other end of what you’re trying to do. And so I think that’s why this whole conversation is so important. It’s about doing the right funnel work, not just filling the quote unquote, funnel with what you think you’re prospecting against.

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 10:54
Exactly. And it’s foundational, right? So when I work with businesses, and I feel like I can say this, because I’ve probably seen under the hood of about 500. And pretty intimately for a lot of them. I’ve worked in a lot of agencies. And what they want to do is like split test, button color, and stuff like that. But I mentioned that you’re trying to, oh, man, I’ve slept about, you know, not literally, but pretty close, some people that just want to go and start split testing stuff. But I felt like any marketer can relate to that. But the problem is imagine trying to build a house on sand, and you just put up a few like pillows, obviously never built a house, but stay with me, you put up a few beams, and then it just keeps sinking, right? Well, that’s what happens when like you don’t do these core things, these core foundations in your marketing, and then you’re just trying to improve things, we’re going to run more ads, or we’re going to start Twitter account, or we’re going to make a lead gen funnel, but you don’t understand your target market, your messaging, your positioning, and the often forgot, like the irrefutable third party proof, your social proof to backup all of these claims. And so one of the first things we’ll do, especially in big companies is when we’re onboarding a client, is get them to go and ask three people from different departments in the company, who do you serve? What do you do? And what are the results you get? And tell me the three poster children of your of your company? And we’ll get wildly different answers. And so what happens at the helm? The CEO or the founder, the person who’s been in it forever, it was like, no, no, everyone knows we serve these people, we do this. And what we see is sales say one thing, marketing, say another set customer support, say another and actually nobody’s on the same page, which means that nothing’s congruent that’s going out in your messaging and your communication. And so what happens is, people just have to blindly follow their competition, and there’s just dissolves into this same same boringness in their marketing. And really, it all starts with, like what you were saying earlier, like going into their head, you got to understand the buyers journey, and be able to enter the conversation that they’re having. And so yeah, that’s just kind of like what I see when I’m coming into these companies. I usually just say, like, you need to build those foundations. And that’s, that’s the first thing we do. But all these podcasts and, you know, 2023 hacks are like, here’s the silver bullet do this. And people get caught up on these shiny things. And I’m like the most boring marketer, I’m like, get a we’re making you a target market avatar. Today, I’m not even talking to you about the tech until we’ve got your psychology sorted out of who we’re going after text, just an amplifier.

Anne Candido 13:25
I love the discipline. And I love the element of the very, very first question, which is the fundamental question of what do you sell. And that’s the foundation for exactly how we start every branding conversation too. Because a lot of times I get out of the commoditize, thinking of I sell a product, I sell this thing, or I sell this service, which is really what you’re selling, if you want to actually pull people down the funnel is you want to sell them, that feeling that they’re going to have as a result of working with you or as a buying your product. And that is where you get that emotional connection. That’s where you build that brand love. And that’s what’s keeps people in your funnel. So I love that you said that because I think that everything really kind of cascades down from that. So our second point for how to create sales funnels that convert is to be mindful where and how to use automation. Alright, so you just deleted this, Alicia, there’s so many tools, there’s so much tech to automate or to execute, right. And I think we’re seeing people become very, very reliant and overly reliant on that. And they don’t pay enough attention to how it’s being received or how it’s being used. And it starts to sound really, really tone deaf to the people that are receiving it. And specifically, I’m going to pick on one element of what we’ve been seeing a lot lately because it seems to be a big tool that people are using to actually try to perpetuate their funnels and that’s drip marketing campaigns, especially email drip marketing campaigns. And I feel like with this, it can become a very lazy approach for the marketing. So there’s one thing about being like I love Your analogy, I love analogies of using like the pillars and really establishing your foundation in a really, really solid way. A lot of people are going to jump and they jump to these tools very, very quickly without really being mindful and intentional about how they’re being used. So I’ll use a personal example, and I’ve just been getting this lately, is this person who keeps reaching out to me saying that they want to connect me with other marketers in order to help my small business. And I’m like, did you even take two seconds even like, look at what my small businesses because if you did, you would see we’re a marketing branding agency, and you’re really barking up the wrong tree. So it’s one of those things where people start to become very, very lazy. And there’s other big mistakes I think people are making too. And I’m gonna go through a few of these. And I’m gonna ask you guys, so I’m going to jump in on some of the other things that you’re seeing across the board. But one is being overly familiar or too vulnerable. And what is obviously a mass outreach, I see a lot of influencers do this, who are trying to get you to relate to them in a way. It’s like, Hey, we’re buddies. We’re pals. We’re friends, right? I know what you’re going through, you know what I’m going through? Don’t you want me to coach you? Don’t you want me to give you all of these like virtual learning modules? And don’t you want to pay 1000s and 1000s of dollars for that? Right? Right. So that’s one thing that I feel like it’s starting to lose a lot of its appeal because of its inauthenticity. Pretending like you know everything about your audience, though you’ve never met, which is to that point, or the reverse is being too vague, and that the target doesn’t get you get them, which I mentioned earlier, implying the results others have experienced will be what you’re going to experience even without knowing anything about me again, yeah, I’m gonna connect you to a bunch of marketing agencies and Mike yet, I mean, I am one so that’s not gonna really do anything for me. Not sharing in a value to demonstrate credibility is another one. And that is, I think, probably one of the biggest mistakes that we’re seeing in the in the these email drip marketing campaigns, as they just want you to connect with them get on their calendar to have a meeting a little quick console, and they’re going to share how the whole world revolves around this access, right, and you’re like, we’re gonna be your, your saving grace, well, that’s just never going to be the case. offering them something, they don’t need a case in point. And then like, really simple things like not having a really good footer, like for your when you sign off on your name with some credible sources, your like, website, link, I mean, that’s a big one that a lot of people are missing. Now, we understand that there needs to be some level of automation, especially to get like people in and through the funnel, like, it’s really hard to be managing that many people, especially at the very, very beginning of the funnel. But you really need to consider the tone for which you’re engaging people at each stage. And really being cognizant and mindful the fact of where they are in their journey, again, not just what you want them to do at that moment in time in order to get them from, as you had said, you told me Alisha from crappy point A to desirable point B, you know, in a short period of time, if possible, because you just come up with being tone deaf. And the one way I think you can do this is rally by thinking about adding incremental value or exponentially incrementing value every time you engage with somebody in that way, you’re providing them something so you can they can see and they can kind of vet you as it’s going along. Versus like just trying to close the sale by just like spewing every single fact that about you and just talking about yourself incessantly and hoping that they’re just going to get basically worn down in our eventually just going to sign up for a meeting just to get you to stop. But Alicia, what’s your experience been here? How do you like help people navigate the automation part of the saw?

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 18:29
Yeah, and just to drive home, the tech thing, like what I’ll often say to clients is, what would be the point of buying a Lamborghini if you didn’t know how to drive it, right. And it’s the same thing when you go and get all this tech, because 1000 times zero is still zero. So it doesn’t matter what tech you’re using to band aid, it doesn’t matter. And so, with automation, that is the big benefit of having your funnel sorted out properly, right and creating it properly. Because there’s a lot of human error that doesn’t need to happen in the acquisition, the sales process, and you can free up time for humans. But when you’re automating it, you don’t want it to feel like it’s automated. But how do you find that that balance, right? You want the balance of being efficient in the company, without, as you said, Being tone deaf or having crappy marketing that just gets lost in the noise. And so it’s about finding that balance. And the first thing to do is understanding where somebody is in that buyers journey and what conversation you’re entering into that mind. So for anyone listening, you can just google Eugene Schwartz, his five levels of awareness, people go all the way from unaware to most aware, and there’s five different levels. And then you just got to map out what are the different questions that they’re having. And then because when we’re talking about funnels, there’s an entry point, right? And that entry point is traffic. Each one of your traffic’s has a different temperature. I say temperature because they either cold, warm or hot. As an example, if you were doing Facebook marketing, like ads, typically that’s a colder temperature of traffic. And you probably want to enter the conversation with something like a lead magnet, or more like valuable education to help nurture them through that buyers journey. However, if you are on Google ads and someone’s typing in best, something near me, they’re looking for an offer, they’ve already decided that’s what they wanted. And so for a lot of people, they get really obsessed with these in market leads. And then they build their whole business around the 3% of people looking for them now. And so what automation does, is you can find people earlier, and build pipeline and nurture them down. Now, once you’ve established all of that, which is not super quick, but important, then you want to figure out your lead to sale time, right? So there’s different purchasing lengths of time. And it depends on the temperature of the traffic. And it depends on typically the cost of what you do, as well like and that will gauge what is the latest sale time. And then what you want to break down is all of the objections somebody is going to have. And what we’ve called in previously is like a magic lantern. So you want to pretend you have like a lantern, and you’re just guiding somebody down. And in that you should think what would be somebody’s objection? Why wouldn’t somebody go ahead with me? What would be their hesitations? And honestly, if you just make sure that marketing and your sales team actually have a feedback loop, your marketing team should know what that is, and be breaking them down. And just to go on a very quick sidenote, I think a lot of marketing teams often forget, the point of them, is to provide high quality leads for the sales team. You know, if it’s a legion, keyword, high quality, it’s not ticking a box and saying we got 10 leads, 100 leads, 1000 leads, it’s that these people are highly educated, so that by the time they get to sales, that like the selling is superfluous, all the salesperson should be doing is basically diagnosing whether they should actually come on board with that company for a lot of companies. So when it comes to the automation, it’s important. But if you haven’t mapped out, in the words, it’s kind of like there’s the strategy. And then there’s the execution. And I agree, like you should just ship ship, analyze, adjust and keep that flywheel churning. But I say like, just take a couple of days to sharpen your axe before you swing it, right. So the automation, you can do that in Klaviyo, or Active Campaign or any of those, all you do is you set up the flow, you want them to go on the decision diamonds, if they do this, then this the triggers, and then that’s it. But who cares? Because what goes in the emails, like what’s, what’s actually the copy in your emails? So yeah, that’s a little bit more around that automation. Hopefully it answered your question.

Anne Candido 22:40
No, I think that was very helpful. Now you’re saying what you always met by cold doors, which I never understood with me. Yeah, we will say cold doors. But now Alisha explained it. So now I understand the temperature thing. Yeah. So

April Martini 22:51
I would talk about warm the door is my understanding, why is it door cold? But yes, now I get that exact terminology in a different context. So but yeah, I mean, I think what we’re talking about throughout this episode is going back to the whole human behavior piece of things. You know, I think people perceive it to be a really complex thing. But what we always say and what you said, Alicia, is about the testing and learning, right? And then just kind of adjusting as you go. And I think if folks can think about it through that lens, and not get caught up in the vast number of ways to do this, or when we’re thinking about this point with automation, like, well, there’s a million platforms I could be using, right? And then how do I know then what to do beyond that? I think you do have to break it down. And then continue to always think about what is going to be the reasonable human response on the other side, because I think what happens and you know, you gave some great examples at the beginning. And I think, Alicia, you do a good job of being like, you know, the whole, the analogy of the Lamborghini is perfect. It’s like, I can totally picture that. It’s like put yourself in the shoes of what’s happening. I also get really mad at these emails I get because, number one, they make no sense. But number two, I’m like how much time money energy etc. are you wasting on putting these out there? Because not only are you not attracting me, you’re making me mad? And one of the ones that just blows my mind recently is the email automation. Yes, but it’s automation on just like steroids. So I’ll get a reach out from one person. And within minutes, I’ll get one that says My coworker blah, blah, blah, just reached out but I’m the manager, CEO, Owner, blah, blah, blah. And I just felt compelled to on the heels of her email also reach out, right. So I’m just, it continually baffles me where people would just take a step back and get less scared about the quote unquote, hard work that goes into this and think more about what they’re wasting on the other side of using automation in the wrong way. They’d be so much better off and they’d get there more quickly than I think they anticipate, when you start to say, well, these are the sorts of gates we need to put in place or the strategic foundational work we need to do first.

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 25:10
The issue is, especially with all that cold outreach is they don’t come from a place of value. Right? Yeah. And so a lot of people forget that sales use servitude, we do cold, we’re always starting to ramp up cold outreach, our first 18 months was mainly referrals and strategic partnerships, we’re gonna layer in outbound, and like, not run any ads, right? Like, I don’t actually think we’ll ever have to run ads. And I think our CPA will be lower than if we did run it ads. But the way that we do it, it’s, it needs to have familiarity. So you need to be like, Hey, I read this about you, I’m on your email list, or I did this. And then it needs to be like, Well, I’m actually working with so I’ll just give him more specific example, we’re going off to tech startups that have probably been like recently funded, we’re going to start in Australia. And I’m going to say, Hey, I was looking at your, like, I’m doing research for a competitor of yours, I came across your landing page, which is true, I see so many horrific landing pages every day. And I recently worked with Link tree and we got these results. For them. I think I’m like, genuinely confident that I can do this for you. Here’s a quick two minute loom on what we did for Link tree. And a couple of ways we could implement this on your landing page. So if they only ever watched that loom video, they would know what we do. And like they would have some ideas, making sure that it doesn’t come from a place of critique, though, because I also you see a lot of people like, especially I looked at your website, your SEO sucks, you need more SEO, and this is everything you’re doing wrong. And that just puts up the barriers automatically, right? So I think with a lot of those, they’re not coming from a place of value. And they’re not being like to the point, here’s what we do. Here’s how it benefits you here’s the results. Because when you’re doing cold outbound, you’re going after the in you’re trying to actually source your own in market leads, basically, right? Like you’re not nurturing anyone, so you have to be really snappy about what you provide.

Anne Candido 27:01
Alicia, with that kind of approach? What success rate, do you? Would you like instruct somebody to that they should expect to have like, would you expect like 5% of people to respond to you reach out to 10% of the people who respond like when you do it really? Well, let me ask you, maybe even if you have this, even qualitatively in your head, if you’d somebody does it really well versus somebody who doesn’t do it? So well? Do you have any of that kind of data or perspective?

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 27:28
Yeah, it depends on the list and the quality of the list and the size of the list. So we’ve done this for different clients if we were going after CROs, like really specifically, we would maybe not just do cold email, we might layer that in with the direct mail and LinkedIn retargeting, right, like, it depends on the list. But it also depends on what is that list worth to you sometimes where they’re like, there’s 20,000 of these companies like, we can afford to make some mistakes. But sometimes it’s like, there’s 50 of these people that we service. And so that gauges like, what you should do. And it also can affect the response rates, because you’ll put more effort into the research and you’ll put more effort into getting it right, because you have less chances to get it right. To answer your question. Probably, if you’re just okay at it, you can expect two to 5% like bookings. And if I’ve seen it go up to like, maybe 15%. If you’re really like, if you’re really good at it, it’s like a 15% conversion rate, which is good. Like if you had a landing page converting on Google ads, 15%. And it all just comes back to the offer, like people just scan these and go, so what, who cares? What’s in it for me? And it just comes back to? What are you actually offering if you’d like to talk with me, just just get on the phone, let’s speak and it’s like, it just stinks like it’s gonna be a sales call, right? And you’re gonna have some like, commission breath salesperson, like trying to force you into a sale. But if you’re like, Hey, I’ve worked with these people, let’s jump on a call. I’m pretty sure I can help you. Worst case scenario, I’ll give you this something tangible. Like we call it a growth game plan. I’ll give you the growth game plan, you can take it and run, that’s fine. Like we want to lead with value, best case scenario, we help you hit your goals quicker and crush X competitor, because everyone hates their competitors. So yeah. So always good to tap into that. Oh,

Anne Candido 29:19
that is actually a really fantastic segue to the third point, which is make it easy for your target to say yes. And as you mentioned, if you did your job and understanding your target as a human, then you should know by now, their process for actually wanting to get through the funnel and what their currency is. So if they’re gotten to that point where it’s like, just give me the offer, make an irresistible offer. And don’t just make it like the general offer that’s going to cause them to have more work on their end your offer is supposed to have some element of lower risk and lower effort so that it’s very easy for your target to say yes to and that also gives them something of value again, which is another point if you haven’t heard anything Do you need to offer value when you’re doing this in order to kind of carry people down the funnel? But that doesn’t mean you can skip like the hard work of actually courting them. Because I think a lot of people will go like, Alright, I got your attention, you know, let me give you the offer right now. And let me see if I can roll you in. And let me see if I can hook you it’s like, give taking somebody out to a nice dinner and then expecting them to sleep with you that night, right? It’s like, like, on the first day, it’s basically how it’s like, so it’s like,

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 30:23
nice to be a good dinner,

Anne Candido 30:24
and better be a really damn good dinner. Yeah, so like, there’s gonna be a lot of these different kinds of offers that you might make. So this could include everything from a free console in a way that’s like a highly valuable free consult this not like, hey, get on my calendar, let’s talk and like you said, it just sees a sales call, some sort of really good or deep discount, or some sort of really compelling discount. A free sample is always a good way to get people engaged. It also allows them to put their product in your hand and get feedback and hopefully get some maybe word of mouth around that. Some sort of added value by bundling things together that sometimes can incentivize people a free gift, like you said, whether it’s an actual tangible thing or some level of service that you’re providing, or maybe even like getting them into some sort of loyalty deal. So they gets some sort of access that they wouldn’t get normally, that is another way that maybe you can incentivize people in. And one way to manage this is always offered tears, you can do this with product services, or even in pitching work, because it allows you to meet them where they are. So instead of it being a black and white, or where it’s like a yes or no thing, it’s like, well, if this isn’t, you know quite what you want, we might be able to do it like this. And maybe that’s something a little bit lower budget, lower engagement, or maybe it’s something on a higher end that they need, like, oh, well, you need more than we can do more to. So it allows you to have more of a flexible conversation. But Alicia, I know you are like the expert at this, I’m going to turn this over to you and allow you to give all your insights with how you do offers. Because I know there’s an awesome,

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 31:58
okay, prepare for rent 206 of the podcast and, and at persuasion experience. We call these a golden hippo offer, right? Like it needs to stand out. And so most industries are like, get a quart chat with us fill in a contact form. And it’s just lame and boring, and it wouldn’t persuade anyone to do anything. One thing to be mindful of is in your marketing, you’re always selling the next step. So when you’re trying to get the lead, you’re not necessarily trying to sell your product or service yet, right? Like you want to show that you do what they need and whatever. But really with the call, like you actually need to sell the value of the call. So that’s your first golden hippo offer. And the second golden hip our offer is the way that you close and you get like you actually get them to sign up to the product or the service or whatever you have. And so what you want to do is with this call, you want to show them how you can give them a value, whether they go ahead with you or not, you have to break down the friction. And you have to make sure that the perceived benefit or value outweighs the perceived cost. And just because it doesn’t cost them money, it still cost them time or it costs them maybe like fees like energy, like not everyone loves going on sales calls. I do most of the time because I like to see what people are doing good and bad. I think I might be one of the only people on the planet, pretty much nobody wants to go on a sales call, right? So it needs to feel like they’re going to get something out of it. And the way to do that is to one, understand that dream outcome of what they want to actually achieve. And then just call your golden hippo offer that how to achieve X or I’m going to help you do this. Then when we work with clients, like they’re usually doing dumb stuff. So I’ll say What are you doing in your sales process already? What value are you already giving? And they’re like, Oh, we talked about this and this and this? Like, why don’t you say that, like you literally are solving people’s problems on this call and you’re not telling them. So then we start to get the bullets of what you get the three to five bullets of the value. And then I’m like, Okay, show me your proposal. I’m like, Well, this is lame. So let’s like let’s dive into something. Let’s turn it into something cool and valuable. But it’s like disguised as a like, like, it’s like something cool disguised as a proposal, right? But they still are getting value. Because if you if you did a good enough job qualifying in the marketing, you did a good enough job qualifying in the sales process, you wouldn’t send this out unless they’re serious. So you should be putting in the effort at this point. In persuasion experience, we call this your growth gameplan. I’ll show them their funnel, because I know that a funnel map is useless without the work that we put into it, like mapping it out isn’t hard. It’s the it’s the the stuff that goes into it. And I’ll tell them, hey, here’s the channel strategy, because we don’t do ads we partner you with if you don’t have an ad agency, we partner with them. We’re very big on building channels for diversification. So we’ll work on strategic partnerships outbound, whatever, and what is give that to them. And a lot of people don’t want to do that. And it’s like, well Okay, you’re not going to succeed because you’re not coming from a place of giving and a place of value. And then finally, with the offer, you just want to quickly go and read chill Dinis, big fat book persuasion, and understand the different elements of persuasion, right? The two that you can put in is urgency and scarcity. You probably, if you’re a small business, you probably only actually take on a certain amount of calls or clients. For us, we only take on max one client a month, we’re very boutique, my co founder and I, we both work on everything. So we have genuine scarcity, it’s not false, like time is linear, unfortunately. So we have to adhere to the rules of time. And then you can do urgency and scarcity and reciprocity and all these other things. But it all starts with understanding back to bring us back to the start, what are you really selling, and then using the words of the target market to show them that you solve their problems, and they’re going to come up better than what they went in?

April Martini 35:58
Yeah, I think that last statement there about solving their problems is just so so important, because you just talked about time, and how limited everybody’s time is, and you know, time is the one resource we can never make more of. And so I think if you think about it in terms of that, and not wasting people’s time using that as the filter starts you off, I think on the right foot on getting them to say yes, which is the point of this point, right. And so I think I love what you said about you know, it’s fill in a form or schedule a call, or it’s still putting more work on the target, unintentionally, perhaps. But it’s, it’s saying you do the work to get to me, instead of I’m going to do the work to get to you and to get you ultimately, what you need and what you’re looking for. And I think the other piece is not being afraid to give away, quote unquote, some of the things it’s a lot of what we do, too, quite frankly, is doing an assessment upfront to say, here’s the opportunity areas, point you made before Alicia about not being too critical or saying you’re not doing it right, of course. But look, you have this, this and this, this is how we can make it better, you know, or this is what we would go and do and not giving them the execution of it, but giving them enough that they’re like, oh, shoot, these people really could solve my problem for me. And I think not being afraid to do that is huge on all of our sides. Because you have to be brave enough to one hand it off, if that’s what they so choose or say goodbye to them if they’re not the right target for you. But then also, I think it can be freeing when you’re giving them something that makes it really hard to say no, instead of being fearful of giving away too much. I think that’s just exactly the right way to approach it. And it also again, puts it from the position of what your target is looking for as a human being because we all want people to take stuff off our plate, solve our problems make our lives easier. I mean, that’s just a really emotional thing. Yeah, that’s the emotional piece. And so I think we’ve talked a motion throughout all of this. But I think the contextualization with which this point is just really important. And I would I would encourage people, this is an episode I think you should go and listen to twice, but especially the narrative around this point, specifically, and really thinking through how to change your mindset and to go do what’s actually valuable.

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 38:18
Yeah, and but the reality is like the clients that come to me, and for probably most people listening, they don’t want to do it. They don’t want to spend 10 years building funnels, launching them. So like, I can’t actually physically tell them the how, because they don’t actually care. They don’t have the time. So we tell them the what and the why. Right. And so something that Todd Brown says in his it’s a book called E5 method if anybody wants to read it awesome, awesome book is sell on the system if you sell the system. So we have a system, we called our business persuasion experience, and not funnel dudebro for a reason, right? Like we’re going to call it battles because that because that like causes friction with bigger brands, because they don’t think that they need one. Persuasion experience is a bit mysterious, like oh, what’s that and, and then we sell them a system. We have our px funnel system. We have a golden hippo offer. We have sniper messaging, everything we do, we give it a name. And it’s like, oh, I want to vote and heaps are awful. But only one person in the world does it and I have to go to them to get it. So we do a lot of giving LinkedIn, YouTube, and that brings people in and when I’m on a like a sales call, people be like, Oh, I was working on my golden hippo offer. And I was mapping out my PX funnel. And I was like, Yeah, you were like, That’s awesome. Now let’s see if I can take it over from here. Maybe Maybe I’ll go and do it. And just to quickly add like, if you come from a place of scarcity, your business will never ever grow. And the moment that your business hinges on making money from information as soon as somebody sweeps in and is willing to give that information for free. Like imagine if somebody is I would, of course on how to do funnel maps. And now I’m out here on my YouTube, literally, like, here’s how you build a funnel, I’ll tell you how to do it, because I know my clients don’t have the time to do it. So I’m happy to help other people along the way. But as soon as like you gate, keep this information. And that’s what you make your money from. That’s the moment like you do not have a competitive like you do not have the competitive advantage that you think you have. That is

Anne Candido 40:24
so well said. Everything that you just said, everybody, I totally agree needs to listen to, again, because it’s a really, really important point about the again, the value and what you can monetize with regards to the value that you’re offering. And I think a lot of people miss that. And I also love what you said about having multiple offers. It’s not about like getting the whole big thing sold in right at the initial point of entry. I call it selling the barn with the chicken, I knew it was coming. Yeah, my analogy was coming, I mean, but it is, it’s the same as acting like you’re trying to sell the chickens. And then once somebody has the chickens, then they’re gonna figure out they need a barn or a coop or whatever, in order to house the chickens, it’s like, let them kind of like go down the funnel with you, right. So it’s a really strategic and a very smart way of being able to again, court your your target through without it being overwhelming without it being such a pushy sales pitch without it being like, I don’t even know what to do with that. So I love everything you just said about that. Now, our last point about how to create sales funnels that convert is having strong social proof. And Alicia uses that you actually mentioned this early on, which I think is extremely, extremely important is that your target is going to want to validate you or so you need to make sure that the places they look reaffirm that they should actually choose you, you to understand your target as a human. And that is a really, really important thing. So they know that they’re well they’re going to look and this is part of answering those questions that we were talking about is like, where are they going to get hung up? Where are they going to challenge is going to be where they’re going to look for validation for that? Where are they gonna look for their answers, it’s not always gonna be coming back to you trying to understand what you’re saying they’re gonna want to hear from other people so that they can corroborate what you’re saying. So for example, I had just had somebody reach out to me suggesting that they could take all of our podcast content, and they’re going to splice it all up and get shared across all of our platforms. And they’re going to triple our listeners. Right? So that was what was in the email campaign drip campaign I got, I was intrigued enough to say like, Oh, I wonder what this guy could do. Like, we have all those systems in place. But I’m very, very good people managing the system. So I don’t want any of them to hear this and say, Oh, we’re like having a job separate. That’s not the case. I was just kind of looking. And I was just kind of seeing, you know, can this guy put his money where his mouth is? Now I can’t verify how many listeners this podcast that he was claiming that he grew. I can’t verify that, that’s just and he knows that that’s one thing in the podcast world, you just you can’t verify. But I can like go and see if he’s a credible person for what he’s claims he’s going to go do so I did do that. I went to LinkedIn, I checked his LinkedIn out and I found that he hasn’t posted hardly at all. So what that means to me is that okay, he’s using his LinkedIn as a lead magnet, he’s using it as cold calling. He’s not using it in a way that he’s trying to build his credibility and reputation. So I was like, alright, well, I’m gonna go check out his podcast, I got like two sentences into his podcast. I’m like, This is not a high quality podcast at all. So my how much he actually really know the platform, how well does he know the actual art of creating podcasts. And then I checked his ratings and reviews and found that he only had like 20. And another one all, like, five star rating sounds like Okay, so now I’m left I’m like, Okay, your social proof just basically led me to believe that you’re actually not as good as what you say you are, because you came and do it for yourself. Now, sometimes that’s harder to do for yourself. And, granted, we can’t always shore up every single thing that we have about ourselves. But if you’re actually selling podcasting, and selling podcasts like promotion, you would think that that would be something that you would have very strong social proof on. And to the point, there was never an irresistible offer, like I got four, I think four emails from this person, they were all just cascading variations of let me tell you more about me, let me tell you more about me, oh, here’s my link to schedule a meeting with me. They just, that’s all he wanted. So he could get me on the on the phone, and hopefully, he’d be able to sell me something. So that’s one example of where I feel like the social proof was not very, very solid. So think about for what you’re trying to sell, where do you think you’re gonna need to demonstrate the you know what you’re doing in order for people to believe that they should choose you. Now, that doesn’t mean that you need to be everywhere. And that’s usually the thing that people prefer to cycle on. And I’d have to have a social and I have to have this and I have to have that. You may or may not need that. And you may or may not have to be as strong as you think you might need to be based on your competitors or everybody else seems to think that you need to be but you have to make sure that you are focusing your time and money and effort on the places that matter and not trying to spread yourself too thin which will actually delete your efforts. But I can tell you that the one place everybody needs to Be and they need to show up really, really well is having less you and mentioned Alisha, you’ve seen a ton of crummy landing pages. That is the one thing that needs to be shored up. Everybody needs to have a very solid brand lead landing page. And it needs to be SEO optimized in order to be able to just even like play, I think what the big boys and girls. So Alicia, what is your thoughts there?

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 45:22
Yeah, I think even just what you described with your situation, that’s part of what we call the messy middle. That’s what Google calls it the messy middle of the funnel, right? Some people call it dark funnel, I think messy, middle all makes it sound less ominous. But because like when people map out this funnel, they’re like, Okay, then the human will do this, then they’ll do this, then they’ll do this. The thing about us humans is we’re batshit insane. So we don’t do these perfectly planned funnel paths. And I am the one that has had the most trauma, and the most like humble reality checks about this. So trust me when I say that. So you need to assume like people are going to want to do their research about you, before making people already trained now that before making a purchasing decision, sometimes it’s before they even buy a bloody toothbrush, they’ll go and read the reviews on it right like so you better bet that before before they invest 1000s, if not more with your business, like you should just know they’re going to look for reviews. Now, it’s easy to say just get reviews, just set up a system to get reviews. So in our systems, we use click up, we make sure that we get a testimonial as soon as the client is done, then we upgrade the testimonial once we get the results, but we’re getting them already. And then we have a system to put the case study on the site and the blog and the blog. What you need to do though, is when you’re actually so I’m just gonna assume you’re capturing the social proof, you need to use the social proof with intent, you have to use it strategically. It is not enough to slap a testimonial slider where the testimonial goes for 1000 words. And that’s it right like that is that is not enough anymore, you should be leveraging this this third party irrefutable proof to come overcome objections or to show who it’s for, as an example, on our landing pages, the best way that we use it is we will say, this is like the the feature or the benefit will explain a little bit and then we’ll put a little excerpt from a customer underneath. And then it’s like bomb proof that that we achieve that outcome. Or we’ll say who is this for? Because the landing page is just a digital salesperson, right? Well, so who is this for? And then we’ll put, like, even if you think that coaches are crap and never going to help, I would put a testimonial here that says at the start, I thought coaches were crap. And because you want people to see you want people to see themselves in the in the testimonials and the social proof. That’s the whole point. So there’s a lot of ways that you can use intent more creatively and more strategically than just ticking it off on a box. And also remember, if people are looking for reviews, to have that to have don’t don’t call it success stories, or something weird and wacky, write reviews, have it in your navigation, or like case studies, if that’s what they’re looking for. Also, if you have enough search traffic, and people are looking up company name reviews, make sure you’re shopping for that have a dedicated review page. So for example, we tried this out it found up there have been course companies 789 figure courses, we would send traffic to found a course reviews, it would be a dedicated page with all of our social proof on it. And then it would have call out panels to be like, hey, find your course find your course find your course. And so people buy usually like based on like the proof that you can actually get them the result. And it doesn’t just come from your mouth like it needs to come from people that they see themselves in.

April Martini 48:47
Yeah, I think this point very much showcases how much more savvier consumers and targets are today. And so they’re much better at sniffing out in authenticity, no matter how they’re being served up all this information. And I think the point about using people that are not yourself, to give that proof is hugely important. I also think calling out who things are for and also who they are not four is really important. And I feel like a lot of people aren’t brave enough to do that. Right? Because they’re afraid that they’re gonna go and alienate people versus thinking, Oh, well, if I’m contextualizing it’s for these people or not these people, it helps the people I’m targeting see themselves that much more clearly. And we actually had this success. Recently, we’ve launched fourth rate women as a spin off the fourth rate people really focused on empowering women that are rising through their career and also in a lot of cases are moms because we have a lot of coaching clients where that becomes the focus. It’s kind of like how do I manage my life in total versus just my professional life versus my personal life. And some of the feedback that came back was I opted in because I knew very clearly I was the person And then I was not who you said it’s not for. But then I also shared it company wide to show people how to actually craft a message that targets and then also says and not for. And it just the feedback was that it was very refreshing because we went for it right. And so I think what a lot of times happens is, it gets muddy, because you’re hedging, and you don’t want to alienate on one side, but you don’t want to be too specific on the other side. And so then you get that messy middle, where people are like, well, that’s kind of me. But it’s kind of not, and I definitely wouldn’t want that piece. So now what the heck do I do with it, instead of making it easy for them,

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 50:41
it’s called strategy struggling. I read this in essentialism, like this week, and I was like, I have been so guilty on this, where like, you see another company doing something, and then you’re like, I’m gonna copy that, but I’m gonna keep doing this strategy still. And it doesn’t, it just doesn’t work, right? Like you do need to be all in on a strategy. And when it comes to being afraid to, like, you don’t want to like repel people. That is the whole point of your marketing. You’re meant to be polarizing, and repel the wrong people. There’s over 7 billion people in this world, if you can’t tell me that you can carve out a niche, like a very specific people with very specific pain points, you are wrong. And I will go to like, I’ll die on the field for that you are totally wrong, because you can just serve one niche and do it well. So yeah, I think that a lot of companies are afraid to be polarizing and afraid to push people away. But that’s exactly the point of your marketing is to attract the right and repel the wrong.

Anne Candido 51:40
Yes, yeah. And just to bridge that to I think companies do that within themselves, too. And if that’s called strategy, strategy, I’ll call it capability straddling where it’s like, we can do it all we can do this. And we can do that. And then there’s social proof becomes like more of like a very diluted version of, we can do everything that you need us to do just tell us and actually, that was part of one of our mistakes that we made very early on, it was like, if you need that we can do it, that we can do. And then everybody’s like, okay, but we’re not sure what you are for then like, why would we need your why we will use you. And it would become a very hard way of being able to articulate why do you want me? And so that became an exercise of really distilling down? Well, who are we really really for? It doesn’t necessarily have to be on a demographic standpoint, like you had said early on, which is like, Oh, we only serve like companies over a certain, you know, millions of dollars of or billions of dollars of revenue. And, you know, and you have to it’s not that it’s about like, what type of people what kind of problems do they have that we can uniquely solve for? And that’s what gets to that really, like, nice connections that people start to really realize, oh, I need you. And so I think that I love what you had to say about that, because I think it really hits home about the choices we need to make the discipline we need to have if you really want to thrive in your funnel. Otherwise, you just start looking like everybody else. And what’s the point of that?

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 53:02
Yeah, exactly. And, and we did it as well. And we were like, just in our first year taking on everything. Oh, it’s unnecessarily so necessary evil, you know, we didn’t over commit, and then under deliver, but, and we didn’t do SEO, no one worry, I have not been left in charge of anyone. But we were like, I was like, I can solve that. And then I’ll figure like, I’ll figure it out until we could figure it out. But then what we’ve done in the last quarter is look at okay, well what actually makes us profit. And so we were working on these dumb dumb tasks that I could only do like it was very niche to my skill set. That’s not building a business that’s building a job that doesn’t pay me as much as my good job. I quit to build the business basically. And so what we’re thinking is like what you say yes to, you automatically say no to a lot of other things. And, and I think everyone has this problem and two resources, kind of, we’re going to start wrapping up soon. So you can just go read all of these books in stone is read Essentialism. Mind blown, like the best thing I’ve read so far this year, and another one by James Schramko, which is Work Less, Make More. And that’s a very simple step by step. It’s a lot of stuff that I’ve learned from like people like Dan Kennedy, whatever, but it’s very, like do this and make more money because we all want to feel special and important. And during this busy work, right, but you want to be productive or do you want to be effective, I want to be effective. And those two books have been really, really helpful in helping us to figure that out internally.

Anne Candido 54:32
That’s fantastic. Thank you for those. All right in our last segment is we highlight companies or brands I mean may or may not be using their Marketing Smarts, but obviously since we have a guest believe is definitely using her marketing smarts. So what we’d like to do just turn it over to you to kind of kind of wrap this up for us. Is there anything else you would like to add that we may we didn’t cover or we missed or any specific points you want people to take away and of course let people know where they can find you.

Alisha Conlin-Hurd 55:00
Awesome. So the takeaway is your funnel is not optional. If you have a business, you have a funnel, every touchpoint is your funnel, people go through three phases attract how like, where are you playing? What is the channel strategy that you’re on? And how do you turn them into a lead? Convert? How do you turn that lead into a sale? This is your sales choreography and your sales enablement. And then your ascent? How do you make more money? What do you upsell into? What else can you solve after that, right? Because the more money you can make from each customer, the more you can spend to acquire. And that my friends is your growth flywheel and all you have to do is map out every single touch point. And then just start with the acquisition like at the start that attention and and move down. Don’t overwhelm it. But if you want to start somewhere, just survey your your your customers, I always say audience like I’m on a game show like come on down. I surveyed the audience. And I said this about you it is kind of like that, because people like, Oh, really? I’m like, Yes, really. This is why you got to NPS and some purse, like 100 people have poured out their heart or something. So yeah, and if you want to find find more of me, we’re currently working with tech startups who wanting to get more leads and paying customers for their clients for themselves. So you can head to persuasion You will chat with me know sales bros, I promise. And if we’re a good fit, awesome, if not, I’ll give you your growth plan free of charge and I won’t hunt you down, I’ll send you annoying follow ups. And on top of that, we put out a lot of information both myself and my co founder, Matt Craike on YouTube. Literally everything that I’ve ever learned. I just put it into YouTube videos. We’re very, very forthcoming with our processes systems and what we do. And on LinkedIn, if you want to hear more rants find me. Alisha Conlin-Hurd. I rant every day. I’m on my soapbox, so yeah, come on down.

Anne Candido 56:56
I love it. I love a good rant. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It’s been just fabulous to have you because this just really made this topic so much richer and gives us so much really great actionable feedback. So I’m sure our listeners are gonna love it. And just to recap, then how to create sales funnels that convert don’t let the data overshadow the fact that your consumers customers clients are humans first, because it’s usually the problem when people get obsessed with traffic numbers and don’t relate to them as humans. Second, be mindful where and how you use automation and maybe necessary but make sure you aren’t being tone deaf. Third, make it easy for your target to say yes, determine your targets currency and use it to make an irresistible offer or offers as we’ve learned and finally have strong social proof your target is going to want to validate you you need to make sure that the places in the information on those places they where they are looking reaffirmed that they should choose you and that will say go and exercise your Marketing Smarts!

April Martini 57:52
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