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How to Leverage Audio Marketing with Nora Sudduth, Co-Founder of Hello Audio: Show Notes & Transcript

Post | Jul 19, 2022

Welcome back to Marketing Smarts! From brand-building and marketing veterans Anne Candido and April Martini (that’s us) comes a podcast committed to cutting through all the confusing marketing BS so you can actually understand how to take action and change your business today. We deep-dive into topics most would gloss-over, infusing real-world examples from our combined 35+ years of corporate and agency experience. We tell it how it is so whether you are just starting out or have been in business awhile, you have the Marketing Smarts to immediately impact your business.

This is Episode #98 and we’re talking audio marketing with guest Nora Sudduth, Co-Founder and Chief Revenue Officer of Hello Audio. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review if you’re exercising your Marketing Smarts!

  • Episode Summary & Player
  • Show Notes
  • Marketing Smarts Summary
  • Transcript

Marketing Smarts Episode #98: How to Leverage Audio Marketing with Nora Sudduth, Co-Founder of Hello Audio

You’re listening to this, so you’re familiar with audio marketing. But really – another marketing channel?! It better be worth it. Audio marketing can open so many doors for you and your business when done right. There are just some key decisions to make: public or private podcasting? Audio or video? What should you talk about? We have you covered, as this week we welcome guest Nora Sudduth – Co-Founder and Chief Revenue Officer of Hello Audio – to share her audio brilliance and answer your questions on making an impact with the medium. This episode covers everything from podcasting to confidence. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

  • What is audio marketing?
  • How do you leverage audio marketing?
  • What is private podcasting?
  • How is private podcasting different than public podcasting?
  • Is it better to offer everything for free or offer premium content?
  • How do you choose topics for your podcast?
  • What are some examples of successful private podcasts?
  • How do you get started podcasting?

And as always, if you need help in building your Marketing Smarts, don’t hesitate to reach out to us at:

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below:

Show Notes

What is Marketing Smarts?

From brand-building and marketing veterans Anne Candido and April Martini comes a podcast committed to cutting through all the confusing marketing BS so you can actually understand how to take action and change your business today. They deep-dive into topics most would gloss-over, infusing real-world examples from their combined 35+ years of corporate and agency experience. They tell it how it is so whether you are just starting out or have been in business awhile, you have the Marketing Smarts to immediately impact your business.

How do I exercise my Marketing Smarts?

Thanks for listening to Marketing Smarts. Get in touch here to become a savvier marketer. 


Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

Anne Candido 0:02
This is Marketing Smarts, a podcast committed to helping you become a savvy or marketing leader, no matter your level. In each episode, we will dive into a relevant topic or challenge that marketing leaders are currently facing. We will also give you practical tools and applications that will help you put what you learn into practice today. And if you miss anything, don’t worry, we put worksheets on our website that summarize the key points. Now, let’s get to it. Welcome to Marketing Smarts. I am Anne Candido. And I am April Martini. And today we’re going to talk about how to effectively use audio marketing. So some of you may be eye rolling right now and thinking right, another marketing platform I have to get familiar with. And it’s kind of like a new fitness craze, right? There’s always new marketing channels and new marketing opportunities coming up all the time. But unlike Zumba, we think audio marketing is here to stay in for the very specific reason that it’s conducive to multitasking.

April Martini 0:59
Yeah, so what is audio marketing? Well, this podcast would be one example of it. And so think about it. You can listen while you’re driving while you’re exercising while you’re doing mundane tasks and chores. It really helps us to feel extra productive, right. And as we’ve mentioned before, this podcast has been a great enabler for us in the RFP and vetting process. It allows us to say to a potential client, okay, you want to gain a bit of knowledge about us? How about some real life experience on our perspective, you can listen in, see what it would be like to work with us, if you like our tone, and then also gain insight into our credibility on the topics. There are other forms of audio marketing to one of the other most important popular forums is private podcasting.

Anne Candido 1:40
Yes. And today, we brought on an expert to help us deep dive into the world of audio marketing and private podcasting. And that’s Nora Sudduth, co-founder and CRO at Hello Audio. Nora, would you like to introduce yourself and maybe explain a little bit about what private podcasting is and how it’s a little bit different than public podcasting?

Nora Sudduth 1:58
I’d love to Thanks for having me. So I am Nora Sudduth. I am, like you said the co founder of Hello Audio, which is a podcast hosting tool and we specialize in private podcasting. So the big difference between a public podcast and a private podcast so I guess there’s there’s a couple that I want to highlight here. Obviously, you’re probably familiar with public podcasting, because you’re listening to this amazing public podcast, right? This is out there for anyone. Absolutely. And they mean it. There’s this is out there for anyone to listen to, to subscribe to which by the way, if you haven’t have not yet subscribed, click the subscribe button because you want to make sure you don’t miss any episodes. This is a great opportunity for you to, you know, meet new people. And typically, these public podcasts are in an interview type of format. There’s other public podcasts out there. But this is just generally accessible to the to the general public, where private podcasts are different. So they actually look and feel and play just like a normal public podcast just in your favorite podcast app of choice or wherever you’re listening to this episode, chances are you can listen to a private podcast as well. But it’s about controlling who gets access to that content and for how long so you can gate content and you can protect it, whether you exchange it for an email address, or you’re waiting for someone to purchase something and you’re giving that content in exchange for that person’s purchase. So that how we control that access is one way that it’s different. Another way that private podcasts are different is in terms of the content that you that you typically think of as when you think of a podcast. So public podcasts, again, our shows and interviews with private podcasts, you have more freedom to the types of content that you turn into a private podcast. So when you think of our private podcast, I want you to think I am using podcasts as a communication vehicle, a communication channel to reach my audience. And I don’t just have to have or be a podcaster to have a podcast, I can podcast all sorts of different content from my courses, to coaching call replays, to maybe I speak my email newsletter, and I have that as an alternative way for someone to consume that content. So think about all the things you can do with private podcasts. There’s a lot of different ways that you can all the different content you can deliver. There’s a few other differences as well. And I’m sure we’ll kind of talk about those as we kind of go along. But the biggest one is the delivery. So with the public podcast, these are their date driven, right, this episode drops on a specific date, which is great. With private podcast, you can still do date driven delivery. So you can have episodes drop and be scheduled to release on a specific date. They could be instant. So if you think about your Netflix out, you know, if you want to binge on Netflix, they could just be instant with everything in there so that they’re bingeable This is great for courses, or for complete libraries of content that you’re not going to add to. The other really cool thing about private podcasts is they can be dripped. So we call this the N and evergreen basis right so you’re day one, you opt into this private podcast so an upset and you’re day one earnest today, April opts in next week, your day one is starts next week. And you each are seeing the same exact content, but on different schedules based on when you activated that podcast in your app. So those are the biggest differences between public and private.

Anne Candido 5:14
Now that is extremely, extremely helpful. And I think probably a lot of our listeners ears perked up, because I’m sure they’ve considered doing a lot of things that you’ve talked about, and kind of wondering, what is the form for which to do that? Or how do I go about doing that? And like you said, Do I need to be a professional podcaster in order to go do this, right. So that was really, really helpful. And we’re gonna get into all the elements of that today. So and because we have the two different sides of podcasting. So obviously, as you mentioned, me in April, marketing smarts, and our public podcasting, and you being the expert on private podcasting, we’re going to kind of go back and forth on this, and kind of cover the whole realm then of audio marketing. So with that, let’s jump in on how to effectively use audio marketing. So first, you need to decide between public podcasting or private podcasting, right. So there’s a lot to consider here. And in a minute, Nora is going to kind of give us the rundown of the private podcasting world. But for me, if I was gonna take a 30,000 foot view and kind of understanding what dimension or what way I want to go, it really comes down to what do you actually need for your business? Right. And so we started marketing smarts in order to really build a reputation and credibility, that is a very public facing objective is a very public facing need is something that we need to show up in order to be able to fully instill that that point of view that people have about us. So trying to maybe go private podcasting initially would have probably kind of kept us into a world all on our own in our own little bubble. So we had to get it out there. So that’s what we had to commit to. Now what when we do that, though, you have to commit to a certain element of process, as you mentioned, public podcasting is actually executed on a very regular basis. That is the number one need for public podcasting is you have to be very consistent. The podcast FL are those who decide they’re going to just do this as a hobby. And they’re just going to put out a podcast episode here and there. And then they wonder why they don’t get any of the traction. And then you can find once you start doing that, though, that your podcast, especially in a public podcasting setting, starts to kind of take on a new life. So initially, me and April, were wanting to do it from a credibility purpose. But as we mentioned in the intro, what started happening was that it started becoming a way for us to really RFP work. So when people were saying, Are you the right agency to work for us? We’re like, Well, why don’t you listen to a couple of our podcast episodes, you get a really good feel of who we are as people, you get a really good understanding of how we approach the world. And how we approach marketing specifically, which is this POV of having a really no nonsense kind of straightforward, very direct approach, and to really unveiling what marketing is. And you can actually learn a little thing about maybe what your big questions are in the process. So that’s kind of like the 30,000 foot view of public podcasting. But nor give us like the insights on private podcasting, and how it’s different. And how do you direct clients about what is the best way to go?

Nora Sudduth 8:15
Yeah, I love this in sometimes in my experience, it doesn’t necessarily need to be an either or a lot of times, we have folks that have both a public podcast for all the reasons you just discussed there all the right reasons to have a public podcast. And as you said, it is a commitment to being able to consistently deliver great content, which obviously you do, right. And that’s that’s something that it’s not an IT that I don’t want to underestimate the amount of work involved in doing that. Yeah, absolutely. And it’s a big deal. And it private podcasts are used for different reasons, right. So if I look at a public podcast, and all the reasons you said like that, it’s I want to get my voice out there, I want to establish credibility, I want to have consistent, I want to just let people consume my stuff, I want to get it out in the world for everyone to see, which I think is fantastic. Private podcasts are great when you want to gate content. So that might be from a marketing standpoint, you could create them as a lead magnet. So for folks that have a public podcast, so like, Hey, if you want to go deeper, so for you, if you’re looking at this is a great way for you to get talk about your agency, and this is a great way for clients or prospective clients to get to know you. And what you might do is an audio form, you might say we have a lead magnet that helps you here’s the seven questions you need to ask when you select your next agency, right. And that could be a lead magnet that people could opt into. And here’s the cool part, especially if you’re already an existing podcaster people already love listening to you. They’re already engaging with you. They know they’re your voice. They’ve kind of come to know you in this voice only platform. And you’re still continuing that conversation just in a different way. Maybe as you nurture them or as they get closer to becoming a client down the sales side. I call or things like that. So lead magnets are really great, and a great use of private podcast. We also have a lot of folks that in our community that wouldn’t consider themselves as podcasters. Maybe they’re intimidated by the amount of work, or sometimes they don’t feel like they have anything to add, you know, to the conversation, or they’re just like, there’s a lot of podcasts, we definitely talk about that. I think that there’s some just some concern or some nervousness right about creating a public podcast for all the right reasons. And I understand that sometimes they’ll start with a private podcast, because they can control who has access to it. And they can say, is there more visibility into who’s specifically as listening, because access is provided based on your email address, which means I can see exactly when an is listening, and I can see exactly when April is listening. And that’s something you typically don’t get in a public podcast, you get downloads and some basic data, but you don’t necessarily know. So this is also really great if you’re testing out, like your marketing messaging, or your hooks, or that type of things that your audience might want to listen to. If you do have folks that are opting in for that content, you can kind of test to see who’s listening. And for, you know, essentially what, what topics are the most interesting. So I think there’s that I do think I’ve seen it also private podcast, in a launch or in your marketing. So for folks that typically do more launch style marketing, whether they’re running a live challenge, or they do a summit, or they do a workshop or a webinar, a lot of times private podcast can be used as a way to increase consumption of your launch content. So we all know as launch, you know, for marketers, if people don’t consume your launch content, chances are they’re not going to buy because launch content is architected right so that we were taking people on a journey, we’re combating hesitations and objections, and all that kind of stuff. And what being able to podcast that launch content now allows people an opportunity to exactly what you said, we’re increasing the hours of the day that we can reach our audience just by putting it in audio form. So we’re unlocking all the time, we’re not sitting here at the screen. And we’re getting them while they’re multitasking, which is exactly how you started off this episode of why audio is so powerful. So I would consider those use cases for private podcast as well. So both can exist, you can absolutely have success with both. I think to your point, there’s a there’s a bigger commitment to doing a public podcast where you have to consistently really produce that content that doesn’t necessarily exist in the private space.

April Martini 12:25
Well, and I think that’s just so interesting, because when you think about the funnel, right? And as marketers, we’re thinking about that all the time. It’s like, when we first started, like ansaid, we started more of, okay, let’s build our credibility, which links to awareness, right? We were starting out, we were new, et cetera, et cetera. And then I think you’ve heard us say, right, we’ve kind of moved down the funnel to more lead gen stuff, but I really like what you said around the idea that you have more visibility into your audience. And also, what is clicking with them versus what is not. And then also, I think it’s leading them down that funnel further, right? Because we always say, you know, there’s some aspects of marketing that you put out there that are somewhat passive if you’re not looking for the message at that point in time, right. But if you’re engaging already in a public podcast, like we said, and then you’re then you know, drip campaign or however you’re getting them this additional content, they’re already interested in engaged, which to me then says, okay, that conversion could be that much easier. Because they’re, you know, locked and loaded, so to speak, into making a decision or moving forward down their process, not necessarily just listening and consuming as they go. It’s more active than that.

Anne Candido 13:37
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s a really, really good point. And I, I’ve seen a lot of people starting to use them both together, too. And I’ve seen it actually, very recently, in public podcasting, where they’re starting to gate some of their content with some of their more popular folks. I went on to how I built this, and I wanted to go listen to a podcast. And I was like, Oh, you need a subscription to and I can remember what it was, I was like, seriously, this has been a free public podcast forever, right. Or, if you want to hear now on, I think it’s masters of skill. If you want to hear like the full episode of the full interview, you can pay their monthly fee to hear this full interview. So there is a way of kind of playing both sides. But I like the element of thinking about private podcasting being a whole host of other different formats that you can leverage and an audio way because all people would say, Well, I kind of do that do webinars, but webinars are kind of different than what you’re talking about. Right nor are those are like visual still in a context of like the lead magnet but when people are thinking about webinars in in that sort of thing in order to bring that to you that still plays on like the two different aspects of it. You still need to be front of a screen you still need to be looking at something. Now can you be listening to it and not watching whatever is going on? Sure. But like, how do you think about those two different sides of like how people are traditionally using like the web Whereas as lead magnets versus using a pure audio format for in order to kind of pull them down.

Nora Sudduth 15:05
Yeah, we’re seeing both work, which I think is fantastic. I think the biggest thing is we we typically do think that webinars need to be seen. And what we’re seeing is that when you know, and I’ve been absolutely guilty of this myself, I’ve registered for a lot of webinars over the last several years that I had zero intention of, of actually going to, and I knew, because whether it was a conflict with soccer, or whatever that looks like, right, and but I was like, Oh, they’re gonna send me the replay. So I’m going to raise my hand and say, I’m interested and they’ll send me the replay. Do you know how many of those replays I watched? Yeah, probably not that many, less than maybe 1%. Right. And I had good intentions. But finding the time has been a big challenge. And I would even argue the folks that once that I did watch, I’m sitting here, I’ve got six screens. It’s like Mission Control, where I’m where I’m sitting. And so I’m probably clicking play, and then I’m multitasking, and I’m doing a bazillion things. So I’m not actually watching the screen. And a lot of times to be effective the webinar, you don’t necessarily need to see things upgraded. It depends on your content. But a lot of webinar content is belief building and belief shifting. And so it can be very effective putting it into audio format, because if it wasn’t, it doesn’t get consumed. That’s usually what we’re seeing. So we’re seeing consumption rates go up. And as a result for folks that haven’t. So we have folks in our in our members area in our in our members community that have done challenges for years, three or four different times, same consistent conversion rates throughout, they added audio, that’s all they did, they didn’t change anything else, no other variables change. And now they’re seeing a 2x conversion rate, sometimes on their back end, or, you know, maybe it was like 10%. Now we’re at 20%, simply because we just made it easier for people to consume content. That is all we have done here is we’ve just put it into a format where you can stick that phone in your pocket, turn off the screen, and go about your day. So when now we’re using those little pockets of time that we all have in our lives that we don’t necessarily think about but people will consume your content during those pockets of time, if it’s easy for them to do. And that’s what podcasting does. And private podcasts allow you to do that. I will say this too, with respect to the companies that have kind of done like Apple podcasts have done this and Spotify have done this where they’ve taken podcasters. And they’re like, Yeah, you can monetize to exactly what you said, just create more content. Most podcasters are like sweet Jesus, I don’t know how to create more content. Are you kidding me? Do you know how much work this is? Until Allah and then even listeners and the others have the flip side of it. They’re like, this has always been free. Why do I have to pay for it. So it doesn’t necessarily create a great client experience. But compare that and you’re kind of stuck paying like people are like five bucks a month or 10. You know, it’s like your content, your genius is your content is worth more than five or $7 a month, right? We don’t You don’t need to stick with that model. And now with private podcast, the way that Hello audio allows you you can charge whatever you want to charge we have people charging $1,000 for their private podcast, because they’re giving launch guidance that will lead to 1000s and 1000s of dollars of revenue. Right. So I think that’s the important shift, too, is that there are different flavors of private podcasting, too. And if you look at what we’re talking about, which is just the ad, it’s it’s a communication vehicle, that’s all this is, it’s just like your email inbox, private podcasting is the new inbox. And you’re able to reach someone there with less noise, with more intention and with more intimacy than you would in other channels. And when people consume your content, they typically are more likely to take the action that you want them to take.

Anne Candido 18:41
Yeah, I mean, that’s such a really, really fantastic point. And it really leads nicely into our second way of how to effectively use audio marketing. And that’s to create content your audience actually wants to hear in the way they want to hear it. Right. And you just mentioned this is that, yes, it leads to a really good way of being able then to monetize effectively, but it also makes sure that your content has value. So you know, a lot of times when we say yeah, you’ll make content your people want to hear it’s like everybody’s like, Well, yeah, done. But like people gloss over this so much because they want to do it in a way that they want to do it. And they don’t really spend the time to really understand, okay, what is my listener really want? What is my listener really need, because you just hit on some really big goal minds that people should be asking themselves. So for example, if I have a busy entrepreneur, you know, do I really want to make them look at a screen where they may be looking at six screens? No, they’re there. Now their intention is split six ways, right? Not just one way. So if I can do it in an audio standpoint, then I can actually make sure that they are really kind of maybe doing one other thing but listening to me at the same time. Or it’s in the content that I’m providing, if I’m able to actually make them be able to accelerate down the path a whole lot more quicker than they would be without me. That’s another way that I can actually monetize in a way that has a tremendous amount of value. And so you really need to kind of think about that from your client or your customer or your consumer, however, you’re thinking about these people, your employees, frankly, if you’re doing business based internal podcasting, about what did they want to hear, and how they want to hear it. So in this also, frankly, helps you differentiate your podcast from others. Right? And that’s a really important point. And you hear us talk about that all the time. When we’re talking about brand. It’s who am I? Why am I different? Why do you want me it’s the same thing when you’re creating podcast content, whether it’s public or private? And like one thing that you know, me and April learn when we were trying to figure out, Okay, what’s going to be our perspective for marketing smarts? And what do we have to offer that is going to kind of blow the marketing podcasts out of the water, right. And it’s the fact that I come from a corporate standpoint, April comes from an agency standpoint, those point of views together are not very, very common. And what we’re hearing is that a lot of our listeners love to hear our different perspectives from that side arm from those different sides. Because if I’m on the corporate side, sometimes I don’t know what my agency is thinking or from an agency side, they don’t know what the corporate guys are thinking. So we kind of really unveil that we given them the peaks underneath the tent. And we really say, Well, this is really what’s going on. And that’s of tremendous value to folks, and they love to hear that perspective. It gives them a purview that they might not have known no matter what side you’re on.

April Martini 21:21
Well, I think those relationships can be contentious, too, right. And a lot of time we do debate when we debate,

Anne Candido 21:29
debate, we get people real peak to what it is like inside. But I think that that is a fundamental place where there’s whitespace, because people are like, how else am I going to get this information? Because best case they’re communicating. Okay, worst case, there’s contention there. And so the real conversations have never had. Right. And I think, you know, that is a really, really good point. And I think it also kind of lends to the fact of like, what kind of topics are going to be really a value to right. So that’s another thing that we’ve heard is that when we pull topics, not only do we pull them from people that you know, we we know, or that things that we’ve seen in here through our clients, we’re pulling in from things that we’re seeing and hearing in the world. And a lot of times marketing content can be somewhat evergreen, but sometimes there’s some timely things that are happening right now. So you layer the perspective on what the relevance of what’s going on right now. And all of a sudden, you have something that people actually find a value. So putting that all together and really thinking through that is tremendously important in order to be able to definitely move your public podcast. But Nora, how do you think about that from a private podcasting standpoint?

Nora Sudduth 22:33
Absolutely. So I love everything that you said, and I did testing her messaging and testing this is is part of the process, right? We’ve all done it every and we’ve all helped clients do it, right? Like this is part of it. What I really think is that audio makes this easier, it actually decreases the amount of time that’s required to test your messages. I mean, if you think about, you know, clients, and course creators, I’m sure all of us have met course creators that have been trying to get their course out for months and maybe even years, you know, and then and that’s horrible. Like, it’s very expensive. Well, it’s so expensive, and whether they’re hesitant to be on camera, I don’t particularly love being on camera, like I don’t love the hair and make out it to like that’s not super fun. I also equally hate editing video, that is not super fun, because normally I’m like in one half of the screen, and then I know that I’m on the other half, or like I’ve flipped my hair because I got nervous or whatever it is right. So I look totally different. And it’s really obvious. There’s none of that in audio, right, it’s so much easier to edit audio. So when you think of like rapid content creation, audio, you don’t need a bazillion dollar microphone to create great audio content there. Not only can you buy a lapel mic on Amazon for like 12 bucks, but it’s also you can create nicer studio effects in your closet or in your car. Like there’s ways to there’s ways to do this where you don’t need expensive equipment, you don’t need to worry about those things. And there’s there’s tools like hello audio, we integrate with which allows you to remaster right there so you’re able to get like quality audio without having to be a podcaster or a crazy audio person that like really is into their audio and knows how to do that and you can be a normal everyday human being that just gets an up and up microphone and starts talking. So I think it’s the speed where private podcasting can really come into play in terms of understanding your messaging. I think the other thing that you know we look at is the way we’re communicating and the layer so you mentioned it earlier and I think it’s because so you create workbooks when people listen to your episodes and they’re so jam packed. You create worksheets, right and so and I love that I think it’s so useful. What private podcast Can you in a lot of people use worksheets for PDF like downloads and things like that, right? That’s a very common lead magnet alone. A lot of times they end up in the PDF graveyard, right i mean they’re are super valuable. And we because I’ve, I’ve created many I know a lot of love and a lot of work goes into creating those worksheets. And even as a consumer I have downloaded and been so excited about worksheets and my, and I’m not alone, most consumers, I’ll get to that later, right? That’s the message. And so we download it and it ultimately ends up and I have multiple graveyards of PDFs on google drive all over the place different hard drives around bars. And yeah, you know, they’re all over the place. And I feel bad because I had every intention of doing it. But it took me out of the buying cycle, it took me out when I did that download, what really what is really cool about private podcast is you can add a guide, an audio guide that helps people go through that worksheet, right. And so we actually have a lot of Hello audio users who have that amazing checklist or have that amazing worksheet that they had spent all that time creating. And they’ve created a supplementary audio guide to help people go through it and to articulate and think about what that does to your brand. Right? You mentioned, it’s like, who are you? How do I get to know you that PDF doesn’t really communicate effectively who you are. But now you add your voice to that people get to hear your quirks, they get to hear like, you have a little bit of a mom voice, I got a little bit of mom energy, what I thought about that. And you could just tell right, it kind of comes across, but now people feel your brand. And they hear your brand, which most most people don’t think about. And it just makes that lead generation process even more valuable because not only are they getting crazy value from your worksheets, which you spend a lot of time on, they’re also getting more value from hearing you. And hearing you talk about where people get you might get stuck and really kind of guiding them through the process. So that’s where I even love layering private podcasts on to something you’re already doing.

April Martini 26:46
Yeah, I mean, I think that makes so much sense. I mean, well, first of all, a very kindred spirit when it comes to the camera.

Anne Candido 26:52
Yes, it’s taken me a long time to get here. I

April Martini 26:55
hate it. But I think that as you were talking, something that occurred to me, and I hadn’t necessarily thought about it this way is when you’re on the screen, there’s a different level of polish expected whether it’s you personally, like you said, how do you look, whatever. And I’m also one that moves around where my face says exactly what I’m thinking. That’s not what I mean to have happen. All those things. But then I think on the receiving end of that, if we’re going to take the time out to invest in watching something that is very different than taking the time out to listen to something. And I think that also, when you think about everything from having that guidance, like you said, to being able to walk through something, or really getting to listen and hear from the person, I feel like all of us can relax a little bit more. And it feels more natural for everybody involved to listen, and to take it in that way. And then I also really liked what you said about not reinventing the wheel, but taking what you have and thinking about different ways to do it. I mean, most recently for us, we’ve started doing quick hits with our podcast. So it’s great, we’ve heard that they’re jam packed, and there’s lots of information in there. And that is the reason we do the worksheets. So you don’t feel like you have to take notes as you go. But on the other side, sometimes people just need a quicker hit of inspiration. And so we’ve taken our content and cut it down to clips. So you know, earlier you mentioned like those little pockets of time we have, if you don’t have time for an entire hour long episode, you might have time for 1015 minutes, and that might get you energized enough to go do whatever it is you need to do next. So I just think all of that is really interesting and smart. And I also think it’s like the opposite of how we think about it, right? Because we think if we’re gonna create something new, it has to be new. And I think what I’m hearing you say is no, no, that’s not actually the case, reexamine what you’re doing now, especially because there is an extreme amount of content creation fatigue, when it comes to podcasting, get ready. So make sure that you’re being smart in the way of thinking about it almost in reverse.

Nora Sudduth 28:53
Yes. Oh my gosh, I love that. It’s in repurposing content in a way that we may not have thought about it, we think about oh, I’m going to create social posts that I’m going to create, you know this, what about that? So we had a person that had an e book that was doing well, to cold traffic, it was probably converting it 20% Which is amazing, right? Normal ebook, I was like, that’s better than I thought it was gonna be. I was in that alarm. But that’s a lot better than I thought. Well, all we did didn’t change anything about the content itself, but we changed it into an audio. So we changed it into a private podcast, kind of an audio book where they just read through that ebook, they didn’t need to do anything other than voice it right. And granted, you could hire a voice actor, but if you’re the if you’re the brand, that should really be your voice. I think it’s easy. It’s your content. And that conversion went from 20% to 80%. And it’s like, whoa, whoa. And so we looked at this and it was like Why? Why is this happening? One is I think when and I know I can say this as a consumer, I’ve downloaded things with hesitations that I’m actually going to consume it if it’s on audio. I trust myself a lot more. I know I’m busy. I know I have space in pockets of those times when I’m picking up at soccer camp or, you know, whatever is that I’m doing. I know that I leveraged those pockets of time really, really well. When it’s an e book, I’m like, Oh, am I really going to sit down and read that? Probably not. If I’m being really I don’t trust myself to read it. And consumers are not trusting themselves. That’s why they’re hesitating, purchasing things. That’s why they’re hesitating with the 50 page ebook. But now we’re just changing the format, I think makes a big difference. And people connect with audio, they’re going to connect with you and your voice. It’s a very intimate experience when you have someone’s voice in your head. You know, we look at the scientific studies of because a guy got asked a question, Amy Porterfield asked us, because she is also a hello, audio user. And she said, Dude, are you anti video? I just want to know, because if you’re anti video that I can’t use this product. And I was like, No, absolutely not. We’re not anti video at all. We and she obviously makes beyond beautiful videos, right? Because this is absolutely gorgeous. Yes, absolutely. I’m like, Oh, of course, no, we’re not anti video. And we also know that audio gets consumed on a higher rate as a higher because it’s just convenient. Right? And and in terms of people getting to hear your voice, and you don’t even necessarily need to change anything. Even if you are having a visual piece of content, just allowing people to consume it low pressure and allowing them to binge it, it kind of lets them know where you’re taking them. Right. As an agency, we had a Facebook ad agency as someone who did a private podcast, and they had their course teach Facebook ads. Holy cow, what a visual topic that is, like, let’s, let’s talk about Facebook Ads Manager like, Ah, this is not what I want to be doing, right? Like, this is horrible. And they thought, well, this isn’t gonna work for me. And what they did was all they did was drag and drop those videos, turn them into audios, automatically, we strip out the video for them turns it into audio. And what it did was it took the pressure off and it let people be able to consume that content, low pressure, we all know that from a learning standpoint, repetition is key. So when they logged in and watched the videos, which we again, we’d love those videos, and we would watch Amy’s videos to be seen to because they’re so gorgeous. Now they’ve already heard it once they know where you’re taking them. And they’re less intimidated, because it isn’t the first time they’re hearing it. So even with things like visual content, it can still audio is still an effective way to get your your content consumed in that low pressure way.

Anne Candido 32:23
Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. I love that. And I also love the point that you made about testing and learning, because that’s a really big thing that we talk about here. Because everybody feels like they have to get it perfect right from the get go. Right. And you’re talking about private podcasting, being able to really refine your message. Well, it’s the same case in public podcasting, too, which mean, you’ve heard us try it multiple times where, you know, originally, we had a different third section than we do now into we’ve changed our third section, because we find it a little bit more conducive to the topics that we want to talk about, we want something that’s like really hyper relevant not have all this evergreen content all the time, we now repeat our four points, so people can take those away, because we heard I get lost in after point three, where was point one, and to remind me, you know, so you start kind of really figuring out what formats are going to work in order to really get that that transcendence of your message and make sure that it’s clear. And so I think that works on both sides. So I love that you said to test and learn. And I also love that you said about the conversion, because that leads really nicely into the next point, which is you need to develop and activate a promotional plan, right. And this is regardless of what kind of podcasting you’re going to do. Because I’m sure that the person who developed the ebook didn’t just go, Whoa, I am on audio. Now I get 80%, right, no traffic, like just, you know, snap your fingers. And all of a sudden, it’s like the light turns on, you have to really think about how you’re going to promote your podcast, whether it’s private or public. I mean, I think a lot of people might assume you’ll tell me if I’m right or wrong here that from a private standpoint, it doesn’t need as much traction because it’s internally focused, or it’s more like gate driven. And I’m sure you’re gonna say that is not the case. But we can definitely say from a you know, a private stamp or public standpoint that. I mean, we spend a lot, a lot of time publicizing our podcasts, there is a lot of podcasts out there. There is a lot of marketing podcasts, even though me and April are like exceptional. Yes, pat on the back. We have to let people know how exceptional we are. Right. And so that means that we have to one we spent a lot of time trying to get on other people’s podcasts like, you know, and nor does you know, how you have been in the people that you have in order to like be able to have you get on our podcast, actually and be able to see and be able to talk about your business. I mean, that’s kind of like the way the network works. Right. So getting on that. We use social right in order to promote a podcast. A lot of people are getting very frustrated with with social because of the algorithms and so a lot People are using texting now. So I wanted the podcasters I listened to sends a text out every Tuesday when their podcast launch, right? This, they send that out. So there’s always different ways of being able to promote your podcast from the really, like I say, the showy things of like social and being other people’s podcasts all the way to like our podcast is in the signature of our emails, right? It’s everywhere. I mean, when we go, when we are doing any kind of keynoting, or presentation, we’re always like, listen to the podcast, or we refer to the podcast. I mean, it has to be part of your vernacular, your jargon, the way that you talk to people, the way that you sell your business, everything because it helps to really instill the fact that you have won this library of content that really, it makes a big difference in the way that you’re perceived. Kind of like writing a book, it’s like a body of work that helps people to really appreciate what you bring to the table. But also, it helps you sell yourself like we talked about. So think about as you’re thinking about your your podcasting and I know you’re gonna give us some some tips on the private world, like, how do you want that to show up? And then how did all the different ways that you can use your content across different platforms in order to be able to make that content stretch, whether it’s, we didn’t even mention the blogs, but we use blogs as another way of being able to really take some of the points and go deeper into some of the points been able to stretch that content, but

April Martini 36:23
or we do like a highly relevant to right now, you know, situation of this is a more evergreen one. But this is a moment in time. So the blog is going to contextualize that way. Right?

Anne Candido 36:32
Exactly. And so it all kind of starts to work together to kind of create that, you know, the kind of the momentum for that topic, but also it makes it very searchable, too. So SEO starts picking those up when people are searching those things, and you start popping up as a content expert on those topics. So Nora, help us understand how the private world of promotion and do you do things same? Do you do things differently? How should people think about that?

Nora Sudduth 36:58
Yeah, promotion is still key. Nothing about this is the Field of Dreams, right? It’s not that they will come kind of thing like I wish it was. But that’s just not how this works, you know. And so it depends on what you’re using your private podcast for. So we have a lot of folks that use them for lead magnets, right, it’s a free offer is still an offer, you still have to sell it right, you still need eyeballs on it, we still need to get visitors there. I think you know whether I think we went through and did a challenge recently to help folks create an audio lead magnet. And I think we identified over 40 free places where you can promote your lead magnet and you can put a link to your lead magnet, whether they’re on social profiles or B there’s there’s a bazillion ways that you don’t have to spend money to promote yourself. So it’s like sweat equity versus check equity. Right? Like you got to put in some of the that to be able to promote it. And I would say there are folks like and the there’s three different I would say three different ways people are primarily using private podcast. One is that marketing, whether it’s a lead magnet, or they’re podcasting, their launch content used, I mean, how many are you not promoting your launches, of course, you’re promoting your webinars or your challenges or your workshops or those types of things. We do have folks that speak their blog posts, or their email newsletters, and they turn that into a private podcast. And it’s just because it’s easier to consume right in some folks who just prefer to listen, and we’re starting to see a lot more preferred to listen to this email, right subscribe to this private podcast instead. So there’s, it’s just about making its ease. And convenience is what this is, I would say the second part of our second way people primarily in addition to marketing, use it for delivery and fulfillment. So if you’re a course creator, like Amy Porterfield podcast, her core, so she provides a podcast feed with all of her course material, just allow it to be easy, easier to consume. And she does the same thing with her coaching, call replays. If a lot of times we all have joined, I know myself included coaching programs, the times that they have the live calls didn’t always work out, I never went back and watch the replays of those zoom calls. But if they put it in a private podcast, it’s a lot easier for me to consume, I consume the information, I’m more likely to get results. So there’s those types of things for delivery and fulfillment. And then I would say the third type of thing that people are using it for is like internal or podcasting for work. So using it as instead of an all hands zoom call, we’re now turning we have an employee private podcast where we have messages from the CEO or those types of things. And the onboarding is becoming honestly audio onboarding is huge. Whether you are onboarding employees, because it takes time to get people set up on Slack and get their emails and all that stuff. But it takes a second for them to get their private podcast and learn about the company values and hear a message from their direct supervisor or clients. So agencies are starting to use audio onboarding for their clients as well just to set expectation, you know how important it is to set expectations up front with your agency clients, right? Because that’s, that’s, that’s where it starts. It’s all in the space. So those are things and, and so do promote, you know, you could argue, okay, well, I’m not really going to promote the internal employee podcast. Do you want people to listen and you’re still promoting it? You We’re still promoting and letting people know about the ease and convenience of doing it. And I would say, one of the biggest things that we’ve seen for folks that are using private podcast, whether they are on the marketing side to get leads or to move leads further into the buying cycle, or delivery and fulfillment. So they’re using private podcast to help their existing clients and customers consume the information they’ve already purchased. Sometimes you’re using them as bonuses, because they’re a lot easier to create, right? So there’s that too, or on the internal fulfillment side, the whole goal is consumption, you don’t create content that you don’t want people to consume, right? Like the goal is to actually get them to consume it. And so whether even in the delivery and fulfillment, you’re still promoting it, you’re still letting them know that it exists. And it’s easy for them easier for them to get results. Or if they have a busy schedule, which I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have a client, that’s not I mean, that’s just normal I, you do have to promote it. It doesn’t just exist on its own. And you know, for those folks that are worried, like, Oh, my audience doesn’t listen to podcasts, you’d be really surprised at how easy it is to get someone to click a link. It’s a one click load into there, and they can listen to Google podcasts. If they have like an Android or they want to listen to a desktop. They don’t have to be an avid podcast listener to have benefit to listening to your content into private podcast. I think that’s the key to but this is about education, awareness and promotion. You don’t this doesn’t work without promotion, for sure.

April Martini 41:29
Yeah, I mean, it’s funny, as you said that, uh, as you were talking, and I was thinking even about the setup of audio marketing as a topic versus the word podcast, right. I do think that there is a little bit of intimidation around the word podcast for a variety of reasons. And so I think when we talk about the promotion piece of this, I love what you said about making sure that there’s an education component to because I mean, take, for example, my parents, right, they’re 65 years old, they’re super proud that I have the podcast, maybe they’ve listened, maybe they haven’t, I’d like to hope that they have, but the barrier of getting them over that hump of like, well, how do I get to it? Right. And so I think what we’ve talked about here is number one, and you know, your setup of it needs to be everywhere, because you need to be making sure that you’re taking advantage of every opportunity. We’ve talked a lot on this episode about thinking outside the box and reorienting your perspective. But then I think the other piece is how you present it to people. And then the ease with which they can get to it. But I think if you say you need to listen to this podcast for your new job, and you’re not someone who’s an avid podcast consumer, you’re kind of like, oh, shoot, I don’t even know how to do that, right? Versus being like it’s audio content, the intent is to do it when you have the time. So it’s on your time versus our time. It fits into your schedule. It’s really easy to get to of course, but you’re able to consume it in the way in which you want to versus that all hands zoom call or whatever it is that webinar that’s at this specific time.

Anne Candido 43:00
Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. And I think what’s all kind of, kind of coalescing for me is the biggest way your podcast grows, despite everything that we’ve said here is for somebody to share it because they find it a value. Yeah, right. Yeah. And in order to do that, you really have to think about what the medium allows you to do that is audio based. And that big one is storytelling. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it’s not only it mean, understanding, like who the person is, and the brand behind the person is like phenomenal. And like guests, you have that totally add something that like actually just reading something on a piece of paper. But it’s also the element of being able to tell a story and what you said, just kind of hit me because my daughter is getting ready to go off to college this fall, and she’s going to Mercer. And Mercer just sent her a bunch of stuff, it’s like, we really like you to understand how, you know the history of the of the university like what we’re all about, but they sent everything in written form. So she’s sitting there like reading through all these articles and highlighting these articles and stuff. And I it just occurred to me I was like, how much more powerful would it be if somebody were actually there telling the stories of these articles and everything that’s behind the articles versus having somebody get down in like, having to read it all, and getting the reading fatigue and stuff. So I think, you know, the promotion is a tactical thing for sure, like doing all these things that we talked about, but it’s also making sure your your content has the quality that is going to have the value that is going to want to be shared. And that’s love that private or public, right?

Nora Sudduth 44:29
I love that the university example got me I’m like, well, maybe I need to be started talking to universities, like socially like they really because if you think I mean, especially your demographics, I think a lot of folks are like, Oh my My people don’t listen to audio content on their phones. I mill hundreds of millions of Americans alone, not to mention like the Canadians and other folks around the world. Like just the stats that I have hundreds of millions of people are listening to content, audio content on their phone. Like why are we not meeting people where they’re already at? Right? If we look at the their stats out there, because we were looking at this for investors as well, is we the amount of I think the hours consumed on for audio rivaled the amount of hours it was actually more, I think, than the amount of hours that people were consuming on Netflix every week. Interesting. We, we don’t think about it. But there’s so many in there. It’s not this doesn’t have to be podcast, avid podcast listeners, it’s just like, this is audio. It’s convenient. So leaning into the messaging of listen on the go, right? Listen anywhere, anytime, right? It’s really we’re talking about ease and convenience. And if there’s anything I know, like it, I’m sure you would agree on marketing side, when we’re talking about an offer free or paid. There’s a few things that really kind of increase the value of your offer. One of them is ease and convenience, we pay for ease and convenience. So why not lean into that, especially with audio, which provides you that by default, it provides your folks at ease and convenience by default. And I think is we start to see, you know, the shifts in the economy as we start to see shifts in buyers. Now, I’m not going to sit here and be like, Oh, this is all doom and gloom and everyone’s going to stop buying stuff. That’s not true, people are still going to buy even with gasoline prices going up and groceries going up. But what people will be starting to look for is more reassurance in their purchases, they’re going to start to need more touch points. And audio is a great opportunity for you to be able to provide that reassurance and provide the combat those sales objections or just address the hesitations and provide that reassurance, because people are going to look for more certainty and the outcome of their purchases, because that’s just what happens during these economic times. And I think, you know, between adding the the boosting of the offer when it comes to adding ease and convenience, I think it also helps boost the offer in terms of certainty, and the likelihood that they’re going to have success just by making it easier for them to consume the content that you’re selling. So I think there’s there’s a lot of opportunity here as we start to see shifts in buying patterns that audio can provide that I don’t know if any one has really thought about.

Anne Candido 47:10
Yeah, and even more tactically speaking, advertising within podcasts is starting to really become a prevalent way to get your brand out there. But also for trial. I know when I was leaving p&g About that time, we were just starting to investigate it. And it was compelling. The ROI is very compelling. Because you have that captive audience now can you skip through the advertisement? Yes, but you almost always hear him once before you you decide to skip through them. So that’s another element of this that to consider if you’re not going to do the podcast. And maybe you might think about advertising on podcasts. So

April Martini 47:47
Well, I think when you’re more passively listening like that, you’re less apt to engage in skipping. Yeah, even though you can skip eyes in your pocket. Yeah, it’s on your Oh, it’s over there. I’m driving my car or I’m in the middle of a run. Am I really gonna stop and and skip that? So I think it you can I don’t think it happens that much. Yeah.

Anne Candido 48:07
Yeah. So that’s interesting. All right. And our fourth point of how to effectively use audio marketing is in creating community. And I saved this one for last, because it’s probably one of the hardest things to do. But one of the biggest things that can get the flywheel growing, and a lot of the very popular public podcasts have really heavily invested in creating community and actually branding their community. And they do this by incentivizing them, right. So not only are they creating good content, but then they’re also taking that extra step of incentivizing their community to engage. So I listen to max out which is on my last podcast, and he is famous for doing this. So he will tell you if you comment on every single one of my Instagram posts, you’ll get entered into a drawing to win a fight with me on the private shirt or when a sign book to win all these things. Now you can say that is that a little salesy, maybe but he’s created this fantastic community that now has been able to parlay into other things like speaking engagements, like events. He now just he’s writing a book and his books gonna launch in about a week, I’m guessing his books gonna probably do pretty darn well. Right. So he’s created that community for himself around his podcast, and that’s really elevated him and his personal brand. Others have actually branded their podcast so I listen to Michael Gervais. He calls his podcast from finding mastery, his finding mastery tribe, you have John Lee Dumas so JLD and he talks about fire nation so they actually spend the time to actually be able to brand their community in order to give that community a vibe. And you know, when you do that, it creates this kind of this. Almost this like I said this before this flywheel that continues to have this virtuous effect on helping your podcast grow, which also then helps create that foundation that you might want for other things to grow. So Tell me, Nora, how’s that work on the private standpoint is that work similarly, or I mean, sometimes you have the built in community too, especially if you’re doing like an internal podcast or a business based podcast. But what has been your experience?

Nora Sudduth 50:12
It’s true, I think, with private podcast, because you are typically exchanging access for an email address you are you kind of have that built in community to some extent. And I think it’s a great opportunity for you to use exclusivity, like pride like that you have an exclusive audio series that’s only for members of this community, you could use it for rewards you can give. So you know, we get entered to win prizes, you can get exclusive access to a behind the scenes podcast or private podcast. So you can use things like that. I would say one of the things that we’ve done effectively to help build community for Hello audio, because most like SAS, it’s a SaaS product. Are you building a community for Right? Like, what does that? What does that look like? And I’ve seen some people do it very badly, right? So we’re like, oh, we really want this community to be effective and valuable for the folks that are in it. And so we created this is a full on experiment, we had no idea if this was going to work. But we created a private podcast with our customer stories. So we did in originally, it wasn’t meant to be a marketing play. It wasn’t meant to be a marketing play at all. It was like you we have folks that are doing very unique, interesting things with private podcast, we need to tell more people about it. And if you know, yes, we have our live call on Friday, and like we’re in the Facebook group, and we have our support channel. But how do we get this content out there and to your exact point, it’s the storytelling that brings us all together. And so what we did was we created just a pure it was a private podcast, the only thing it has on there as customer success story after customer success story. And what we realized was at first, when we created these episodes, because each story Each customer has their own episode is every all of our existing users were like, This is amazing. I walked away with so many ideas, and it lit their fire to consume more create more feeds or use audio, which is what we want, we want them to use audio in their business or to have a better business or a better life. Right. That’s why we exist. And then I think, you know, we started to also see the traction with the marketing side of, you know how to, it’s almost like sharing testimonials. But there’s so much more effective, because you know, and most marketers, God bless the marketers who ruin things for everyone else, right? But it’s like testimonials. And if we know they’re there, we all we can call them out. But testimonials where they’re, it’s all about the person or it’s all about the product. And that product or that company, or that the the business owner is the hero and they’re like, no, no, no, that’s not what this is supposed to be. It’s the consumer, it’s the customer, that’s the hero of their own story. And so what I love about the stories that we’ve effectively told through this podcast, is that everyone is different. Everyone has their unique business, everyone’s used it in a different way. Everyone’s gotten different results, they were maybe at a different starting place in their business. And we have lots of different levels from Amy Porterfield, right, she’s running a very large business to folks that are just starting out or have a side hustle, and they still have their nine to five. So it’s just representative of our community, and people can see themselves in these folks and get amazing ideas. And then you get the added bonus of that private podcast on the front end from a marketing standpoint to maybe overcome hesitations, or you know, for SAS, specifically, most people are like, Oh, it’s another tech product, it’s gonna be hard to use, right? It’s normally what people think, right? Like, oh, technology, I don’t need another, I don’t have time for this. And we can sit here, I can sit here all day, like, trust me, it’s easy to use, I could even give you stats, 70% of our users create their first feed in 24 hours. But that doesn’t hold a candle to you hearing it from our users in their own voice. And I think that’s something that’s really effective. So while private, we don’t necessarily private podcast can help fuel the community can help bring people together around common beliefs around common topics around those types of things. I think that’s really the benefit of private podcasts, and the ability to provide exclusive access and to get people excited about taking things I personally love hiding easter eggs in private podcast as well. So that you know, kind of like if you find this then having them take action, and that gets kind of that engagement up as well. So I love those little hidden easter eggs in there. That’s a lot of fun to do too.

April Martini 54:30
Well, and I love what you said about you know, hearing it right from the mouth, right of the consumer one. But then also being able to kind of self select where you are in your journey or who you may want to hear from because we have this conversation all the time about our podcast, right? And we sort of believe that there’s three different tiers of folks that listen while every episode everyone should be able to gain something from there’s different levels of journey, sophistication, where you are what skills you have which ones you don’t on. And I love layering on top of that, the idea that you can hear from someone else, not the person trying to sell you something, why they you know, they’re the same profile as you are, where you are. And you can hear genuinely from them, what they were able to do with the service or the product or, you know, whatever that looks like, because I think that there is, you almost have to find yourself in it, especially if you’re at that sort of like, I’m not really sure. And like you said, the technology piece can be a huge barrier, where it’s like, oh, do I really need one more thing? I think we all feel that all the time. And so the human side of it can help get people over the hump, get them comfortable. And then I also think, you know, I was thinking about this this morning, and and I also have a women’s mastermind, right. And the magic that happens not when we’re facilitating the conversation, although, as you said, we’re awesome. So yeah, of course, there’s magic. Sorry, exceptional, exceptional. But bringing those women together the same way that you’re bringing the content together, right, and letting them see and learn from each other is so invaluable. And so I love this approach of like, yeah, okay, we could say so and so at x company had X, you know, data points of success with this. It’s not, it’s not about that it’s hearing it directly from the horse’s mouth

Nora Sudduth 56:17
and love that. Yeah, it makes a huge impact, right? Because you’re, I mean, you hear their, you hear everything in that person’s voice, you hear their fear, you hear their hesitation, and then the magic truly comes. I mean, for those of you that are looking to do audio, testimonials, by the way, audio is a lot easier to get than video testimonials. Let’s put that out there, too. Yeah, super easy, a lot easier. But it’s not about just skipping to the end, getting to the end, and just talking about that end result is only part of the story. It’s almost like if I went in the top 10 movies of the last, you know, six months, and I just told you the end, like Okay, so you know, but it’s it’s about the it’s about the journey, it’s about where they started from and what they were thinking about and what what was what issues they were facing, and then the fears that they overcame, or the beliefs that they had to shift and and the you know, what they really thought of the product, the service the vehicle that they’re using the guy that that you know, we’re helping them get where they want to go? Yes, the result is awesome. But like so many we have, you know, so many times we see testimonials or even just endorsements that are that aren’t even testimonials are just like this is good. Awesome. Like that was really, that didn’t help me at all. I couldn’t visualize myself in that story. I couldn’t, I couldn’t see that, oh, this person was just like me and had the same concerns and why did they still buy? Oh, I guess that makes sense. And this okay, and and here’s the fun thing about this is for those folks that are really hesitating to be like I don’t want to we actually tell people, our clients names like their businesses, we let them provide links to what they do. And everyone’s like, Oh, you can’t you promote other people. But this is what referrals like, because I came from corporate to before I started my agency, like this is what referrals are like, Do you not know like, every time you like you ask for referrals and they usually we used to give phone numbers like Do you not remember this? Like we’re not giving people’s phone numbers but we’re it’s a win win for your customers who are sharing their story in their journey. And they’re again, they’re the hero of their own story. And it’s a win for you as a product or service or business owner because you’re you’re demonstrating your ability or your products ability to help guide someone along the way to get that result. And the hearing that and someone else’s words is so impactful. And I yeah audio testimonials I truly everyone’s like all video video video, think about the last sales page you went to with 50 Different like embedded here like I’m not watching this a lot of work like but all sudden you put that into bingeable Private podcast. That’s a game changer. It’s a game changer for your for your marketing.

Anne Candido 58:53
Yeah, that’s a really, really fantastic point. And I I think it makes it very real for folks, I think to like when you see some of these testimonials, you’re like, oh, yeah, and you know, see in Cincinnati says she likes it well, I don’t even know who AMSI is. But What all do you have to hear it, you know, a few minutes from me and you already get that perception of who I am and whether or not I’m like you and whether or not we have the same ideals or not. We have the same motivation. It’s an amazing how people get from zero to like 100 miles per hour on that in a very short period of time. So I think what you’re seeing is spot spot on. Alright, so just to recap how to effectively use audio marketing. First you need to decide between public podcasting or private podcasting, or maybe you do some both, but you probably have to start somewhere. So there’s lots to consider here and where are you going to start, but the key factor we think is in deciding what you want to do for your business. So start there. Second is create content. Your audience wants to hear how they want to hear it. So ask yourself what content would my clients really appreciate and what perspective can I uniquely offer? Develop and activate a promotion plan? That’s number Three, regardless of what route you take, you’ll have to promote the podcast, this is it, build it, and they will come. Definitely not definitely not. And then fourth is create community, this is probably the hardest thing to do. But the biggest thing that can get that flywheel going. Alright, our next segment is in the trenches. This is where we give real world examples specific to industry, you’re gonna tell probably a few more stories here. But the idea here is to be able to kind of hear something for yourself and and put it into action immediately. So the first in the trenches question, I am really passionate about a certain topic for a podcast, but I’m not sure I bring anything you need to the conversation. Should I abandon it? And I know we’ve all gotten this question a ton, and you actually address it, nor when we talked about the fact that it’s a person’s story, right? It’s their experience. It’s the way that they see the world. And a lot of times we get this imposter syndrome. And we’re like, well, well, I don’t have anything new to say, I don’t have anything unique to say. But if that was the case, and there wouldn’t be like 10,000, marketing podcasts that actually do really well, right? It’s because when you hear from certain people from certain perspectives, with certain stories, you hear it differently. And that’s what we were just talking about. And so never underestimate the power that your story can have on people. And that experience is invaluable, that’s unique way that you provide that differentiation from others. Now, do you have to develop that into a personal brand that actually reflects through the podcast? Yes. Does it still need to be authentic? Does it still need to come from you? Yes. So this is something that you really need to kind of think about when you are just kind of getting stuck in, you know, is this something that I think I can do? Or is it something that I feel like others do better than me. And I think the other thing that we’re saying here is, it’s easy enough just to give it a try? Right? You can do it in a very cost efficient way, you can put it out there, you can see what the reactions you get, you can use experts like Nora that can help guide you through this process and make it very, very easy in order to kind of get yourself started. And just to kind of see if this is something that’s even going to, to resonate. So I think that from that standpoint, that we all together need to really embrace the fact that we have very unique stories to tell in the way that people can hear him could change their lives. Really, Nora, what’s your perspective on this?

Nora Sudduth 1:02:23
Oh, I agree. 110% a bazillion percent? What’s ever the highest number I can think of? I think it’s, you know, and I understand, like I from corporate where I was one of very few women in the department, I didn’t necessarily value my voice as much as I should have. Right. So I think I kind of took some habits from that when I moved into this entrepreneurial space, and I hesitated, I absolutely hesitated. And it had nothing to do with my worth or my value that I can provide or, or my experience. It just I was nervous. And I was I was hesitant to add to the conversation, right. And again, a lot of it was just from the habits that I had built in corporate and maybe being being scared or fearful to speak up. And I think that the more I realized, and it’s it’s exactly, you know, you had mentioned this, too, it’s, it’s not just Yes, you have experience, but it’s also your perspective and where you come from and how people connect with you. Right. So I’m in my mid 40s, my daughter just started driving, she just got her license, I’m freaking terrified. Like, even just that one, that one comment that I just shared, right? It’s like now for those of us that are have teenagers are you’ve gone through that recently, and you’re like, oh my gosh, now I totally understand, like, now we’re gonna have a connection point that may not have anything to do with marketing or business or Hello audio or anything like that. But we’re gonna have a connection, which might open the door for us to be able to share and be able to provide more value to that. So, you know, coming from corporate, I think is interesting, because we’ve managed, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars of annual budgets, right. So when we have entrepreneurial conversations, we come from a different place. And I think that’s, that’s also a connection point. And so for those folks that are like, Oh, I just everyone else, you know, whatever your outcome is that you’ve done or whatever experience whatever result you help people achieve, you could choose to look at that and say other people do that too. But they’re not you. They don’t they’re they don’t have the experience that you do. They don’t have the same personality that you do. They don’t share the same values as you do. They don’t. So please know that if you’re if you’re one of those folks, and you’re listening to this, you have something to share, even if you think it has been shared 100 different times. It’s not the same way you’re sharing it. And so whether you whatever vehicle you choose to share this, whether it’s a public podcast, if you want to be a guest on a public podcast, if you want to create a private podcast, please know that you have something valuable to share. And here’s the the what I found out was until I actually did it I never got over that fear. If the action is what gets you over that fear, you’re not going to get over that fear and then take the action. It’s actually the action that helps you get over that fear. So that’s something I would I would say, in private podcasts. You know, if you’re nervous, it’s something that if you don’t want to put yourself out there on the, you know, Apple it a directory, Apple Podcast Directory for everyone to see, then start with a private podcast, but don’t censor or or, you know, stifle your voice? Because you absolutely could help someone else out there. Yeah, man.

April Martini 1:05:31
Yeah, you know, I mean, we talked a lot about storytelling through the course of this episode. And as you were talking, I was thinking back through my career, and I’m more on the agency side. But in a lot of ways, there’s not a lot of difference, when you grow up through the agency, right about being a young female and, and watching some of these folks speak and I can think about different points that flashed in my head when I think about when I didn’t put myself out there. And then when I finally did, and so like, I remember sitting in grad school, and we would bring companies in, and they would speak about their journey. And I would think I’m never gonna get there, right, or growing up in the agency and watching these fantastic storytellers. And for all the bad things people say about agencies, they do have some of the best storytellers, the people that can just, you know, handle that room and, and just move people. And I remember all of those times thinking, how am I going to get from where I’m sitting to that place? I had the desire, but I didn’t have the know how, right? And it wasn’t until I started doing it, right. And so I think for me, when I left agency life, and I left that sort of automatic platform, to be able to use my voice in the way that I had now learned to do successfully love doing, this podcast became the next way of doing that. And I remember and even as I listened back to early episodes, I had a lot of anxiety about how much of my personal self to share versus how professional did I need to be and finding that balance again, for myself and thinking through the platform, and I think it comes back to what both of you expressed in the answer to this question, which is, no one’s going to tell it like you are. And there is no person in the entire world that has the exact set of experiences that you have. And then in addition to that, I think the magic that happens when someone connects with you on that level, to the point you made earlier, nor around the power of hearing your voice versus just reading it off of a page. I mean, there is magic that happens there. And so anytime that I get in a place where I start to psych myself out about a client presentation or something new that we’re doing as a company, or even being a mom, right, my kids are only six and three, but man some of the stuff they’ve already put me through. Right, I think that it’s it’s a it’s a way to regain confidence. And so I agree, I would like listeners to hear that more than the fear of like, Ooh, I’m not quite sure I’m ready. Not quite sure. I’m ready. There’s just so much power in it no matter who you are.

Anne Candido 1:07:53
Yeah, yeah. And I think if I was going to kind of take it to the 30,000 foot view of this and try to give one more plea to people to really consider telling your story is, I think about it even in the context of our own like family unit. So when people are like, I just don’t know if I have any credibility, anybody’s gonna listen to me right away. But I think about like my daughter who plays soccer, and you said you have a kid to play soccer to. I didn’t really play soccer except for like, one time when I was in first grade. My dad played soccer, like throughout high school and he was like a premier soccer he played all throughout the world, right? So when she has a soccer game, and no mind you I’ve watched soccer since my oldest is 18 was like five. So we’re talking like 13 years of soccer. I think I’m actually a pretty good judge of skill in, you know, in how well the team played, how well she played to this day. If I told her you played really well, she’d be like, Yeah, okay, like, I have no value in adding that. But my, you know, their dad who has played soccer does, right, you know, although I’m the one who they’ll come to for everything else. Yeah, right. So it’s like I say that not to like flip it on its head and say like, oh, maybe you don’t have anything of value to add. What I’m saying is not actually, you know, when you can relate to people, as you had said, in a way that kind of drives that connection, a human connection, you find that you word resonate better, which is why their diet can talk to them about soccer, and I can’t really talk about soccer, even though we’re both knowledgeable about soccer, right? So think about that and think about what you uniquely offer that’s gonna allow you to have that connection. Everybody has that. Now, I see that too, because a lot of times people try to pretend that they know something when they don’t know. Right, and so don’t be that person who like, wants to be the expert on soccer who really only played one time in first grade and then professes to be able to talk about it because regardless if you feel like you can or not, it’s not going to land so I give the other side By that point, you just so people can have a little bit of, you know, just that kind of perspective and kind of like critically think through what’s the right perspective? Or what’s the right point of view to be bringing forward when you’re gonna go to that place? You’re sharing your story. Right. All right, so our second in the trenches question, can you give some examples of how people have been successful with private podcasts? And I’m going to just turn this one over to Nora, because she was talking about the fact that they actually have about what your private podcast that talks about success stories. So yes, there will be lots to share here.

Nora Sudduth 1:10:31
Oh, my goodness, yes, we have probably for close to 50 episodes, just in that alone. And we’re still adding row, which is fantastic. Love it. You know, it ranges, I think I’ll go back to the three big ways people are using it for marketing, fulfillment, and delivery, and then internal or like onboarding, or those types of things. Obviously, the marketing side is super sexy, we’d like to We love talking about our numbers, we love talking about the conversion rates. And really, all we’re doing in the marketing side is we’re just making it easier for people to consume and get to know us, right? If we think about building awareness, building education, commenting hesitations, conveying social proof, which is really those customer success stories, right? There’s a lot of ways to use private podcasts and your marketing to attract your prospective clients or your prospective customers to get the retention. It’s kind of noisy. I know I’ve got 1000s of unread emails in my inbox, don’t kill me, this is just you know, it’s it is what it is. And yet I my inbox, my podcast player is really clean. And I know exactly what I’m going to go look for. And I make time for that because I’m away from my screen. So there is there is opportunity to increase your reach on the marketing side, and also your relevancy. So I want you to think about that. What I will say this one really cool thing that we do at Hello audio is we don’t just function is that this is going to maybe blow some minds that are listening to this, we don’t just function as a private podcast host we do function is a little bit more of an audio CRM. So what we have done is we allow you to tag your listeners just like you would tag them in Active Campaign or what other whatever other software you use. And you can actually customize or personalize the feed the content that they receive based on their tags. That is something that no one else is doing right now. And so you know, from a marketing standpoint, people come in to your, let’s say you’re running a live five day challenge. So people are you ever dripped out day one, day two, day three. And maybe you get to you do the webinar, at the end, typically of that challenge for folks that consumed or downloaded the webinar episode, you’re tagging them with one tag and folks that didn’t, you’re tagging them with another tag. And now you’re know how to follow up with them a little bit differently. The other thing is, if you have an existing business, you have customers and non customers that are both taking that challenge because sometimes your customers want to join into that that’s a very normal thing. So now if you’re able to tag them as a prospect versus a customer, you’re now able to send just the promotional or sales material to the folks that haven’t yet bought. And your existing customers are not getting hit up with promotional materials. So that is happening with Hello audio as well, which are awesome, that’s huge. Like that’s a big, big deal, from an audio standpoint is be able to reach them that way. So lots of different ways you can podcast lots of sorts sorts of marketing content, I think that’s important on the delivery side. So the metrics that you want to care about and the delivery side that audio can help with, obviously, I’m obsessed with customer success. I’m obsessed with it, I can’t like that’s, that’s my thing. That is totally right. And so one of the reasons I love this is because like how do we get more success rates? How do we get more in next abnormal in the internet marketing world. Most people are not as passionate about customer success as we are. And and so you know, to each their own, but it’s important to us so that by for folks that are putting these private podcasts and like podcasting, your course, Amy Porterfield, we look at all these other folks that are doing it. They’re doing it to make it easier for their folks to have success period. And we see rates that jump and nothing else has changed in the content. Right? We have folks that they’ve increased by 400%, customer success by 400%. And nothing else changed other than they made it easier for people to consume the content so that like why, why wouldn’t you do that success sells. If you want to have a business that’s going to be around long term you have to deliver on what you promise. And so that’s a big thing. The other metric from our delivery and retention or delivery and implementation standpoint in this phase is retention or turn depending on how you want to look at it. So if you have a membership, or people are kind of paying you month after month, we do have folks that took again nothing changed in their program. They just allowed folks to consume content with this private podcast immediately increased retention by 2%. So for a lot of folks that have membership, I mean I can speak after being with Clickfunnels for you know a few years. One single digit change and retention can make a mess. So difference in your top line revenue and your bottom line revenue, right? And especially in like the economy, it’s going to be a lot easier. And you want to take care of your existing clients, because it’s going to be more expensive, you know, and it typically is to go get new ones. So retention, or that turn number is going to be important with audio there. And then I look at the employees or the internal podcasting communication. I would say, by far the companies that survived through this pandemic, that were able to thrive at the end of the coming out the other end of it were the folks that had great internal communication, right. They were the folks that even though we were geographically distributed, the folks that it’s the companies that win tend to communicate better, right, they just do. And I would say folks that have better retention on their employees tend to have better onboarding. Same thing with clients and agencies, right, they tend to have better retention rates if their onboarding is better. So that relates to those numbers as well. So we’ve seen increases in conversions, we’ve seen increases in leads, we’ve seen increases in sales, if you’re podcasting, launch content increases and customer success in increases and retention, which ultimately leads to better profit margins. And we’ve seen it all just by not even creating anything new, just taking the content that they already have, and allowing people to consume it in a private podcast, which is mind blowing, you’re not created. Everyone has this content creation fatigue. For most of our success stories, they took what they already have, and they just put it in a format that was easy to consume. And they see crazy, crazy success numbers, which we love.

Anne Candido 1:16:34
Wow, that is amazing. Yeah. I think that kind of like says it all. Yeah.

Nora Sudduth 1:16:43
Sounds the reason to do it, guys. There you go.

Anne Candido 1:16:46
I have much else to add. Oh, no. No, that was that’s awesome. All right. So our third in the trenches question was the first thing I should do to get started in podcasting. So Well, obviously, we’re going to talk about it from both sides. But I think there’s some definitely some things that are very similar. So for public podcasting, we actually have an episode and it’s Episode 44, which is the newest marketing channel business podcasting with David spray. And whether your podcast is internal, which kind of overlaps a little bit with private podcasting, sir, I’m going to be very interested in what you hear what you have to say, Nora, or it is more public facing. This is what we recommend to start and includes, and this is right from the actual episode, first identifying the purpose. And we talked about this a little bit even initially about whether or not you could go public, private or both. But as the podcast going to be in turn, are you going to be using it to, to more communicate and to relate internally within your business within your walls? Or if you’re talking maybe about private podcasting inside your gates, if you will? Or do you need to externally to grow reputation and credibility. So that kind of helps you to understand at least where to start, then you’re gonna develop your story, arc and format. We’ve talked a lot about that, like, what’s your story, you’re going to tell what’s your brand going to be with regards to your your podcast, right. And this is based on your purpose. And it should be centrally focused on really bringing that purpose to life in a way your listeners will find a value that’s we’ve talked about, you need to create content that people actually want to hear. And then you needed to find a logistics. These are things like duration, and frequency where your record will be the host, those sorts of things. So those are like the kind of the tactical things, and then you didn’t develop your brand and your amplification strategy. So your branding includes your name, your imagery, your music, your trailer, your intro, your outro, all those things that help you produce the product, which is your podcast, and then your publication strategy is kind of like we’ll be talking about our promotional strategy, which is, how are you going to publicize this podcast? How are you going to get people to listen to it? How are you going to get it to grow? So that’s kind of the public podcasting? I’m guessing. It’s probably somewhat similar to private, but it’s probably nuances. Did you want to share? Yeah, absolutely.

Nora Sudduth 1:18:54
So I loved everything you said. And you’re right. I mean, it’s similar in the sense, you’ve got to begin with the end in mind. Right? What is the objective? What’s the objective? What are we trying to do with this? I mean, I think we’re all kind of sold on the benefits of audio, I hope at this point of the episode. You’re like, we got to meet them where they’re at, like millions of people are listening to to cut audio content on their phone. So why wouldn’t we use this medium, that podcast app itself is super convenient, because you can shut that screen off, you can stick that phone in your pocket, and just kind of go about your day. I think that’s important too. So now the key is just beginning with the end in mind, what are we using this for? Is this about awareness? Is this about creating a reputation in the industry? Is this about credibility? Is this about generating leads? Is this about increasing conversions in your existing marketing? Is it to have better employee onboarding? Is it better is it about customer success? So as soon as you narrow in on in granted, you can do all those things with different podcasts, right? So but what’s the first one you’re starting with? What’s the one that’s going to be the most important for your business right now, everyone? In a different stage, so lots of folks are doing different things with with podcasts. But what’s going to be your next best step? That’s what I want you to think about based on what your business needs and then reverse engineer it. So if it’s about I need lead generation, let’s focus on using audio to generate those leads and getting building up that email address or email list and speaking to people, it’s about, you know, last time I launched numbers didn’t hit, and I really need to optimize my conversions on my launch process, then let’s see, maybe use audio for that. And then how we how but no matter where you start, you can’t go wrong with starting to use audio in your business. That’s the bottom line, just figure out what’s going to be your next step right now.

April Martini 1:20:40
Well, and I love that whole idea. Just do the next thing, right? Because I think you’re not talked about yet. This is this is my motto, see? No, I mean, we just love it levels. But yeah, I think that what that does is because of the overwhelming nature of this, right, or the perception in people’s head, that it’s overwhelming, or it’s something that can’t do all the things we’ve talked about today, if you just go and do the next thing, it’s a lot easier than thinking about okay, 15 steps from now on something I know nothing about, what am I going to go do? Right? And I think one of the best ways to just kind of round out this question, because I think you both kind of covered it is big be a student of what’s already out there. And this is what we were encouraged to do from the very beginning, right. listen to podcasts, decide which ones you like, Why do you like them? What would you pull from them? What would you discard from them? You know, I’ve talked about my feelings about Gary Vee right now, even though I have some issues with his tone. There are pieces of things that He is very smart about right buckets, like the quick hits came out of Gary Vee and what he does, right? Yep. So this isn’t uncharted territory. There are many, many people you can learn from we have talked at nauseam on this episode about how easy it is to consume the content. So just go do it. And then pick things and move forward and take that first step and then just continue to take each step after that.

Anne Candido 1:22:01
Even if your first step is just to call Nora. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, call Nora.

Nora Sudduth 1:22:05
Yeah, that don’t work. If you can go, I will say we had hell Awatea we do things a little bit differently than most SaaS companies who require a credit card, we chose to remove that requirement, because we were like, You know what, let’s put our money where our mouth is, we say it’s easy to use, we are 70% of those people get their feet up and in in 24 hours or less. Let’s prove it. And so you can actually go to and sign up for a free seven day trial without sticking your credit card in. So it’s just it’s really low pressure, let’s just I want to prove it to you that it’s that easy to start.

Anne Candido 1:22:38
I love that. And that actually is what usually we talk about in our third segment, which is letting our guests kind of sum everything up or if there’s anything that we might have touched on to you want to touch on. And then obviously let people know where to find you and how they can actually activate this seven day trial.

Nora Sudduth 1:22:58
Absolutely. So you know, I think overall, just to recap, is I look at the opportunities that business owners have, and will continue to have over the next you know, even call it 12 months, six to 12 months. For the folks that don’t use audio, your there’s going to be a large missed opportunity. And that has nothing whether you use Hello audio or not that this is me telling you from a marketing consulting standpoint, from what we’re seeing in the industry, the trends, what we’re seeing on the consumer side, using audio to both reach your audience and to increase the number of hours of day that you can reach them. And now using tools like hello audio that can help you provide more relevancy to your message in that medium is going to be a massive opportunity for businesses to take advantage of I think that’s, that’s the biggest thing I want to get across is just the medium itself. For all of the amazing reasons we talked about today. Whether you’re doing a public podcast you’re using private podcast is using audio period is an opportunity that I don’t want you to miss. I think that’s important. As far as I mean, obviously I’m biased with Hello audio, I think it’s easy to use, our users think it’s easy to use, which we love. So you definitely want to go to Hello and check that out. We really truly made a conscious decision last year to remove that credit card requirement because we believed in our product and how easy it was and we wanted to demonstrate that without anyone because we all know when we put our credit card and there’s a lot of stress we’re like I gotta remember to cancel this seven days I gotta put it on my calendar to make sure I do if it doesn’t work out. And we just it’s so easy and me saying that doesn’t do it justice. That’s why we’re like you know what, let’s let’s put our money where our mouth is and let’s do this. Let’s let’s allow people to do that without any friction points. And so that’s important. So definitely want to check that out. I will say we are it’s you know myself and we have two other co founders and we are there every single week. We are checking support. We’re doing live calls, and being so obsessed with customer success. Uh, you’ll be in good hands is kind of what I’m trying to say. And I think it’s important for you to know that you’re supported, whether you’re buying a tech product or investing in a tech product, or you’re investing in a service provider where, you know, obviously, that’s expected as well, that’s going to be important across the board. And if you want to connect with me, I’m at Nora suddath, on Instagram or at Nora And I would welcome the opportunity to talk about your business. I’m just I’m so excited to be able to help as many businesses as possible reach their audience with audio or with audio and I’m, I think it’s gonna be a game changer for folks, for sure.

Anne Candido 1:25:34
Oh, that’s awesome. And We so enjoyed this conversation and having you here with us as well. So just to recap how to effectively use audio marketing, first decide between public podcasting or private podcasting, at least to start. And there’s lots to consider here, but the key factor is in deciding what you wanted to do for your business. Second, create content your audience wants to hear how they want to hear it. Ask yourself what content what my audience really appreciate, and what perspective can I uniquely offer, especially as we talked about the storytelling, your stories are really important. Third is develop and activate a promotion plan. Regardless of what route you take, you will have to promote the podcast this isn’t build it and they will come. And finally create community. This is probably the hardest thing to do. But the biggest thing that can get that flywheel going and with that, we’ll say go exercise your marketing smarts.

April Martini 1:26:21
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